Art Vandals Lack Creativity

“Man in Motion,” the ArtInPlace sculpture on Emmett Street near the Barracks intersection, was vandalized recently with spray-painted smiley faces, but ArtInPlace and the artist’s only complaint is that the vandals weren’t sufficiently creative. “My biggest issue is, I didn’t think it was done very well,” said creator Edward Pelton. “When someone first said there was graffiti on it, I was hoping it would be something like you see on the coal tower.” Pelton went on to explain that he’s planning a mobile sculpture for the purpose of attracting graffiti, such that the art could be modified by anybody that saw fit to do so. Elizabeth Nelson has the story in today’s Progress.

86 Responses to “Art Vandals Lack Creativity”


  • They very act of creation is creativity. Wearing an aluminum foil hat and bunny ears to a board meeting is creative, but not entierly useful.

    I think the smiley faces are a commentary on how pretentious this entire art program is. Along the lines of stick figure "art".

    "for the purpose of attracting graffiti"? Sounds like beta bridge to me, what do you get on there? "Wooo! yay (insert name here) we’re the best!" Oh yeah, just brimming with quality.

    Now I think it would have been cool if someone went out there and cut that thing off its mounts with a plasma torch.

  • Please tell me that our wonderful City isn’t funding this "art". As I have said before, the streets, median strips and easements are public. Not all of the public wants to see this %&*$ in the middle of our highways. Thats what art museums and these little "artsy galleries" are for on the Downtown Mall…

  • Not all of the public wants to see highways – that is what Northern Virginia is for.

    But, given a democracy, some win, some lose.

    All that said, I have no idea if the city is funding the art. I wouldn’t be shocked.

  • “for the purpose of attracting graffiti”? Sounds like beta bridge to me, what do you get on there?

    Actually, sounds like the wall at the CHS parking lot to me. And in case you haven’t noticed, there’s pretty much always a very substantial amount of really damn good graf there. Check it out some time.

  • Please tell me that our wonderful City isn’t funding this “art”. As I have said before, the streets, median strips and easements are public. Not all of the public wants to see this %&*$ in the middle of our highways.

    You bet. I think it’s something like $10,000/year, although some of that money is paid back when the art is sold at the end of each year. Fortunately, most people, unlike you, aren’t broadly opposed to the arts. :)

  • Great civilizations and great cities invest in public arts. 1,000 years from now, no one will remember the cities that saved a few dollars and kept their streets bare. Charlottesville may be remembered for it’s architecture and artists – some of whose work we may not be enthusiastic about until years after their death.

    If you take offense at the use of tax money for purposes of asthetic improvement, then I suspect you’d be happier living in a rural area. A city inherantly compromises some degree of the individuals’ independence- astheticly and financially.

    On the whole I think that it is a good deal. Often we aren’t crazy about some of the individual pieces of artwork that end up in public (note that even the nude statuary of ancient Rome is periodically scandalous). But the basic idea of incorporating art into public spaces is one that has stood the test of thousands of years.

  • by your logic, the entire public would have to support the spending of taxpayer dollars on anything. city wants to improve a dangerous intersection? too bad, there’s one taxpayer who never drives through that intersection and so doesn’t support the project.

    needless to say, that isn’t the logic that actually operates. we don’t all have to agree that public art is important or that a particular piece of art is worthy before tax $$ can be spent on public art.

  • One can support and appreciate art and yet still have good reasons to oppose this particular use of tax money for art.

    The city may recover some of the money whens the art is sold BUT the city is also buying some of the works and I predict that in the end the city will spend more than they recover.

    There is a lot of publicly displayed art in Charlottesville that is privately owned and funded. I particularly like the sun on the front of Pugh’s Auto Repair and the numerous sculpted tree stumps like the one near Monticello Avenue and Carlton Road. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Huja declares these public displays of private art to be aesthetically displeasing and begins to push for a city wide design control district. If the city does institute city wide design control I will paint my house pink with large purple polka dots.

    Kevin Cox

  • Jack says: "Great civilizations and great cities invest in public arts. 1,000 years from now, no one will remember the cities that saved a few dollars and kept their streets bare. Charlottesville may be remembered for it’s architecture and artists – some of whose work we may not be enthusiastic about until years after their death."

    I say: That is a respectable statement within the context of relatively rich Albemarle and Charlottesville.

    But Jack also says: "If you take offense at the use of tax money for purposes of asthetic improvement, then I suspect you’d be happier living in a rural area. A city inherantly compromises some degree of the individuals’ independence- astheticly and financially."

    So I say: Great! I hope Jack is not in Public Office, because he’d send all the ignoramuses to the country. On top of that, his logic doesn’t stand up to the most basic common sense. A person in Covesville doesn’t pay less county taxes than a person in Boar’s Head. I don’t think there’s an option on my tax statement to opt-out of certain public expenses because I live in a rural area. Is there, Jack? (not that I would not want to spend tax dollars on public art, which, IMHO, is a great use of public funds)

    And Jack… it’s “aesthetic”, not “asthetic” (amongst other spelling issues).

  • Actually, that one is one of my favorites. I’m surprised by the title, though. I thought it was a rooster. But I guess that just shows you that you don’t have to "understand" art to like it.

    I’ve wondered at the vandalism and the venomous statements about the art. Why does art have such a strong negative reaction in art haters? Can’t they just ignore it? Aren’t there enough more important things to hate?

  • Personally, I’d rather people hate art than other people. Arguably, hating (or the more gentle disliking) art is as legitimate a form of artistic expression as that presented by the art itself.

  • hmm. What I understood Jack to be saying is that when you live in a relatively crowded area, there are more things imposed on you that you haven’t necessarily chosen for yourself. People’s houses are closer together; businesses, roads, schools, parking lots, traffic, etc., are all relatively near your residence. It may even be true that there are more ordinances and regulations imposed on city dwellers than rural dwellers, because of the need to manage aspects of life in relatively crowded place.

    If you live in a rural area, you’re likely to have more space between your residence and that of others; businesses are farther away; there’s not so much traffic; and so on. A rural dweller, arguably, feels much more like everything he encounters "belongs" to him in the sense that it’s not been imposed on him by neighbors or government.

    That’s how I took what Jack said. I thought he made a good point; anyone who whines every time the city decides to spend public money on something that person doesn’t like WOULD probably be happier living in a more rural area where there are fewer governmental decisions to spend public money.

  • I can understand a person’s aversion to having their tax money spent on something that they don’t particularly like. Especially in this era of budget crunches. I don’t have a problem with the relatively small amount that this program seems to use, and I’m hoping that it goes to support local artists, and not strangers from elsewhere.

    Myself, I like art. Unfortunately, though, I dislike the “art” that is put in place by ArtInPlace. Not because it uses tax dollars, and not because I hate art. I just don’t care for the particular style of art that they’ve been placing all over Charlottesville. But that’s merely a matter of taste… and not principle.

    Of course, others probably wouldn’t appreciate my taste. I’d like to see a giant Foucault’s Pendulum constructed.

  • Ooh, me too! Unfortunately, it would be tough to do in an outdoor environment — and if you’ve set it up to knock down a number of objects over the course of time, someone would have to pick those objects back up…. We had such a thing in the math building where I went to college; setting the blocks back in place was one of the housekeeper’s actual nightly duties.

  • That roman ae is a *****, isn’t it? Don’t bother pointing out people’s spelling errors in forums like these. It’s a low shot, and the fact is that everyone makes a spelling or grammar errror from time to time. It could come back to haunt you, and it’s just not nice. We all know you hate Jack, so what’s the point?

  • Sympatico says "I hope Jack is not in Public Office, because he’d send all the ignoramuses to the country."

    Why would you capitalize "Public Office"? Isn’t the plural of ignoramus "ignorami"?

    No, seriously, I think this community has found that there’s no point in going after somebody on the basis of spelling or grammatical errors or typos. It doesn’t add to the discussion and is just hostile.

  • I’d like to see a giant Foucault’s Pendulum constructed.

    *drool*

    Mmmm…that would be nice. I have a 15-year-goal of seeing City Hall completely redone, because it (not the annex, but the main building) is really hideous, and I would love to see a Foucault’s Pendulum in the lobby.

  • Waldo, I like art too but it took me several trips past the fish off Locust Avenue to figure out what it is — I have to wonder if that might be a traffic hazard. It’s really what my mother would call plug ugly. The ice doesn’t help either. The only Art in Place that I truly like is the one near the Shell station on McIntire Avenue. The tree one.

    As for the money part of it, wait until December 20 when the Governor announces the latest cutbacks and everyone will squeal like a stuck pig. $10,000 in the city budget isn’t a lot in some sense, but on the other hand with probably Medicaid cutbacks, $10,000 would be a nice little sum for the Free Clinic or Region Ten for uninsured or underinsured Charlottesville residents who will be affected by these cuts. Art is nice but perhaps with the coming days, it may be a true luxury to reconsider.

  • So ArtInPlace has no complaint about vandals as long as they’re "sufficiently creative"?

  • I’m almost hoping such a dire control district does come into being. A polka dot house would be quite amusing as well as having great utility as a landmark when giving people directions.

  • I believe that seniors at CHS earn the right to put that graffiti up and it’s quasi-protected for a year until another class earns the right to the space.

  • I like that idea of re-doing City Hall. It is not what one would really call elegant or inspiring of confidence. A city hall’s appearance should represent and invoke the spirit of its city. In our case, I reckon that would be Jeffersonian-neoclassical with some artsy statuary. I’m not entirely sure how the pendulum fits in there, but I’m sure that we could come up with something.

    On a related note, it’s too bad about banks these days. Banks used to be built like temples and vaults. A place where you felt like you could really go and commune with the capitalist spirit or something. Most of them look more or less like fast food restaraunts and strip malls nowadays (Kudos to Albemarle First & Virginia National for fighting the trend).

    Darn service-based economy.

  • Yeah, SunTrust even has an entire grocery store attached to it!

    Talk about one’s money not "going very far".

  • um, +1 point for the artist,

    -1 point for the vandals, i guess.

    that being said, those sculptures

    really scare the crap out of me

    when im driving at night.

    also, if you think the only local

    graffiti is beta bridge, you should

    check out the CHS wall, or (even

    better) the parking lot under the

    belmont bridge. cville has an

    unusually talented and prolific

    graffiti scene, im happy to say.

  • There is no one true spelling. Shakespeare spelled his name 3 different ways in one letter.

    They don’t even TEACH children spelling anymore, the idea is if the teacher can understand the word, its correct. They don’t want kids to get tripped up in the details, and actually THINK about what they’re writing for a change. It’s great, you have HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS who don’t know their "no" from their "know" and so on. So what if it’s the wrong word? The spell checker doesn’t flag it.

  • See thats cool, I’ll go by and take some pics. That’s, unfortunatly, the kind of art that doesn’t stand the test of time, unlike 10,000 pounds of cast iron.

  • Obviously I don’t think that people should be petty correcting each other’s spelling on boards (people are typing quickly and there’s no spell-check on these things) because it’s kind of petty. However, it is really sad that people can’t spell such simple things as between "no" and "know." It shows that people don’t read very much. I can’t tell you how tired I am of getting emails from my co-workers saying "Your welcome." Argh (sp?).

  • <I>That’s, unfortunatly, the kind of art that doesn’t stand the test of time, unlike 10,000 pounds of cast iron.</I>

    Yes, but isn’t that part of what makes it so interesting? Many times I’ve driven over Beta Bridge and been truly astonished by the time, talent, and effort that went into something that the artist(s) knew would be gone in a matter of days.

  • Trisha says: “Don’t bother pointing out people’s spelling errors in forums like these. It’s a low shot, and the fact is that everyone makes a spelling or grammar errror from time to time. It could come back to haunt you, and it’s just not nice. We all know you hate Jack, so what’s the point?”

    First, I’ll bother with whatever I wish to bother with.

    Second, it was certainly a low shot for Jacko to be insinuating country people do not appreciate art. Correcting his orthography was in retaliation of his insult to rural folk. I, for one, would love to see plenty of highway sculptures along Route-29 South and Route 6. And yes, even if it were funded by some of my tax dollars.

    Third, I find most of the posters here to be very conventional-minded, behind a fake liberalness. For instance, it is conventionally accepted that publicly displayed art can be defaced in some kind of artistic protest, as I can read from many comments, but this is something I personally tend to fringe upon in most cases (I say: go create your own stuff). On the other hand, heaven forbid someone should say something against the very basis of our systems, or criticize a public official, for instance.

    Lastly, do I hate Jack? Not any more so than the rest of you suburban followers. To be clear: it’s not hatred; it’s disgust of your real complacency, it’s distrust for your overwhelming need to be popular, it’s rejection of your accepted conventions.

    But if I were to take a can of spray paint onto highway art, I’d be cool by your conventions, huh?

  • Dude, get a grip. Jack didn’t say or suggest that rural people don’t appreciate art. Just that urban areas typically invest more tax dollars in stuff that everybody has to look at. Governments in rural areas are less likely to do that for whatever reason. Seems pretty self-evident.

    As far as the defacing of public art goes, I’m with you. It’s just rude. But I can also understand the idea that ‘turnaround is fair play.’ If a graffiti artist (not a tagger) has to look at another guy’s art inserted into his landscape every day, then by spraying his own art over it he is reversing the relationship in an amusing, if morally wrong way.

  • Thats easy, Dont use blocks, use sand. It’ll carve a nice concave dent in the sand, and the tiny vibrations of the pendulum and the floor will cause the sand to settle again after it passes.

    The bigger problem is to keep the thing swinging, you need to use magnets and a complex sensor system to determine the position and direction of the pendulum.

  • Get some help. People have opinions, and those opinions often conflict with yours. This is a normal part of living in the United States and it’s something that you should be used to by now. Your anger comes across very clearly in your text, and it makes me grateful that you don’t know where any of us live.

  • And in spewing this little diatribe, you destroy any semblance of credibility you might have still hung on to. To expectorate such sweeping insults in such broad generalities shows no imagination. What it does show is the nature of a person who is twisted on the inside, and filled with paranoia. One who sees everyone out to get them, and finds in themselves an inability to be happy with any part of their life.

    You look for a fight in every conversation. You could choose, instead, to debate your opinions, but you invariably go for the personal attack and ad hominem mischief.

    You might like to think of yourself as an idealist, a dreamer, and one who works toward something better. But so far all you’ve proven is your ability to verbally defecate on anything you disagree with, which happens to be just about everything you come across.

    I’d recommend to you that you not bother to reply, but I just read that it’d do no good anyways.

    Sheesh.

  • All true, but I think the bigger problem is aesthetic, not technical. The technical aspect, of course, is incredibly complex and must also factor in numerous influences of the site itself. But the aesthetic problem for such a pendulum as an Art In Place work would lie in having to enclose the installation itself (to keep sand from blowing away, etc.), which IMHO would substantially diminish the effect of the piece. Not that it wouldn’t still be cool, I guess.

  • I actually like the ugly hunk of metal better with the smiley faces on it.

  • Dude, is Albemarle county rural? Is it urban? Is it suburban? My point exactly is that Albemarle is mixed, yet Jack-o’lantern says those who don’t want highway art would be "happier" in rural areas. This doesn’t make sense here. It doesn’t make sense in most of America, except super-dense metropolitan areas, which we are not. Capire?

  • Talk about needing some help!

    I am not a violent man. Yet you fear me without reason. Is it I who cannot accept other thought processes or is it YOU who exhibits so little rationale when your beliefs are confronted?

    Your childish discomfort only shows how weak your convictions’ foundations are.

  • I thought I have been very clear: I have little use for general acceptance or credibility within your realm.

    I also have said I am neither an idealist nor a dreamer: rather I am a practically minded realist.

    As for defecations, what the hell are you talking about? I think I’ll repeat what I said to Trisha, that your convictions have little basis by the very fragility you display.

  • Cecil says: "That’s how I took what Jack said. I thought he made a good point; anyone who whines every time the city decides to spend public money on something that person doesn’t like WOULD probably be happier living in a more rural area where there are fewer governmental decisions to spend public money."

    Thank you so much for the clarification. I think all rural folk now feel much happier "living in a more rural area where" their tax money is spent elsewhere, by "government decision" or otherwise. Verstehst Du was Ich meine, endlich?

  • "I thought I have been very clear: I have little use for general acceptance or credibility within your realm."

    Then why are you here? And what is with your obsession with Jack? You have this pattern of attacking people and ideas for no apparant reason with enormous leaps in logic that don’t make much sense to anyone. You don’t care about credibility, so you don’t even make an effort at having a reasonable discussion. That is why people think that you are essentially defacating through your keyboard.

    You just squirt all over the place.

  • "Then why are you here?"

    -> I am here because I have a message for you.

    "And what is with your obsession with Jack?"

    -> No obsession with Jack here. I have addressed him twice on these forums. Each time, I felt his post was demagogical. I target demagogues, not Jack in particular.

    “You have this pattern of attacking people and ideas for no apparant reason with enormous leaps in logic that don’t make much sense to anyone”

    -> In every class, there are those who can’t follow. You are one of them.

    “You don’t care about credibility, so you don’t even make an effort at having a reasonable discussion”

    -> I have been completely reasonable. I am not going to reiterate all of my arguments because you have comprehension problems. But I will summarize, just for you: rural folk pay just as much taxes as suburban dwellers, so saying someone would be happier to live in the countryside to not see public spending on public arts is nonsensical. It also insinuates that rural folk would not approve of public art, which is, right there, an ENORMOUS LEAP in logic.

    “That is why people think that you are essentially defacating through your keyboard. You just squirt all over the place.”

    -> Some object to my very presence because I challenge the status quo, their stupid assertions, their inbred thinking-processes. As a side note, people like you, “Guest”, have been far more vociferous and aggressive than I have ever been. Are you incapable of any form of introspection?

  • I am sure that your first answer is at least in some part facetious, but…

    If you are here to deliver a message to "you", presumably meaning both Guest and the status quo community here, you seem to be falling short. You have to appeal to the audience. If someone in the class can’t follow, either the teacher (here: Sympatico) has failed or the effort is futile. If the effort is futile, your answer to the first question is insufficient.

    That is all. I take no stance as to the real issue here — which I am sure is the general cvillenews.com angst that seems to arise from time to time (for a variety of reasons). I just like to note when issues of speaker-audience responsibility and relationship arise.

  • True, I dont want to look at it through plexiglass. That and I’d zip by in my car so fast I’d never notice the progression.

  • Jesus Christ had a message and he was crucified for delivering it.

    I am not Jesus Christ, but I do have an unsavory message for you. There’s little chance of “appealing to the audience”, unless of course, I choose demagoguery as my medium, but then, I’d be like Jack.

  • you said, "rural folk pay just as much taxes as suburban dwellers."

    That’s not true. Property taxes are lower in Albemarle County than they are in the city. Someone who owns a house in the city is paying more taxes than someone who owns a house in the county.

  • say i’m a charlottesville resident who gets really pissed off when my tax $ go to support art-in-place. I’m so pissed that I move to the county, where there is no art-in-place program. now i’m happier because my tax $ are not being spent on art-in-place.

    that’s how i read jack’s comment.

  • I think that you and I both need to keep in mind that to appeal to someone can have (at least) two different meanings.

    I am not sure why you posit the Christ point? My comment, again:

    1. Your self-stated goal is to convey a message.

    2. You’ve failed (so far) to teach the audience much other than neither to like nor to trust Sympatico.

    3. Unless that is your intended and sole message, I think that you’ve failed in your self-stated goal.

    It is pretty fair to say that Jesus, in both his time and later, conveyed a message beyond "don’t like me". Though crucified, legend has it that he has always had at least a convert or two.

    Again, I don’t want to take any stance on who is right in this little spat — I just want to point out that when you want to convey a message to an audience, you do so only when you put it in a framework or context within which the audience will receive it. To do otherwise is to fail (at least at conveying the message — which was your stated purpose).

  • "Then why are you here?"

    -> I am here because I have a message for you.

    I like that part the best of the whole message!

    It’s as if a delivery guy were standing on my porch, screaming and ranting and calling me names and being all self-righteous and hyperdefensive–but oh yeah, he has an important message for me. Like I’m going to come down and get it?

    my point is, people who genuinely care about getting their message across care about their ethos, because without a good ethos, the message only matters to the messenger. sympatico seems to care more about trumpeting his/her rightness and everyone else’s deludedness than about persuading anyone.

  • I should have said real estate taxes, not property taxes.

    In Charlottesville, the rate is 1.11 per $100 dollars of value (but the city website says that figure is as of 2001…).

    In Albemarle County, the rate is .76 per $100 of value (got that information here.

  • Is this news to you? My comparisons were between Covesville and Boar’s Head, or Forest Lakes…

    Most fixed residents live in Albemarle County. Cville city is mostly populated by UVA, its students and some Starr Hill folk (I have nothing against *real* city dwellers, so don’t make me say something I’m not; in fact, quite the contrary).

    Now if you’re saying that public art is always restricted to Cville proper, and that’s why they pay more real-estate taxes, then you’d have a point and Jack would have been perfectly justified in suggesting someone move to the "country". But if Albemarle County sponsors any kind of public art, then Jack, you, and the whole bunch of you are wrong, because moving to the country doesn’t alleviate the public funds you pay taxes into, being spent on something you may not want it spent on, only that the funds are spent elsewhere than where you live. Tu comprends enfin ce que je veux dire, ou tu veux que je te fasse un dessin?

  • Y’all are thinking too small.

    Imagine a good 60-80 foot tall structure in front of City Hall. No need to use easily-blown sand… use gravel!

    Even better would be to make whatever mechanism that keeps it swinging be people-powered. Perhaps a based upon a wind-up spring or crank. That way passers by could not only look at it, but interact with it.

    I am not an engineer, so I can’t say what obstacles may stand in the way of my desire, but I’d still love to see it happen.

  • If I were a delivery guy WAITING quitely for you to "come down and get it", I suspect you’d make me wait sadistically…

    My ethos is quite okay, thank you very much. Other than my online persona, I get quite a bit of external validation in real life. Maybe that’s why I feel no need to make nice with the very people I think deserve a kick in the ass (figuratively only). Not that I don’t kick ass in real life (I do, thanks for asking), but I am certainly more reserved. The reasons for this would be a whole dissertation, and I’m not interested in covering that ground, particularly with a person who displays such disdain towards my beliefs in the first place.

  • You wrote, “But if Albemarle County sponsors any kind of public art, then Jack, you, and the whole bunch of you are wrong.”

    Yep, we would be wrong. But the question then is does Albemarle County sponsor any kind of public art? If you know of any county public art programs, tell us about them. Art-in-Place is sponsored by City Council, thus City taxpayer dollars.

    Until you tell us about a county-sponsored program, by your logic, we’re right.

  • You say "And what is your unsavory message?"

    and you say "It is pretty fair to say that Jesus, in both his time and later, conveyed a message beyond "don’t like me". Though crucified, legend has it that he has always had at least a convert or two."

    You haven’t been paying attention in my class! Tsk tsk.

    …and I just can’t resist…

    "Though he had a few coverts, he WAS still crucified" [by the largER number of people who hated him].

    In fact, his message was WHY he was crucified, NOT because of any way he presented it. By the same token, I have been saying things people don’t like to hear, and I haven’t been particularly rude or rambunctious, as people claim.

  • I’m not what you mean by "WAITING quitely"–perhaps you mean waiting quietly?

    If you were waiting quietly and appeared approachable and rational, I’d come get the message.

    Your offline ethos may be great, and you may be a kick-ass rhetorician in the real world too–none of us can know that for sure.

    We do know that your online ethos sucks. But you’re saying that’s fine with you, which is fine with me.

    You call me a "person who displays such disdain towards my beliefs in the first place." The disdain is foremost for your online persona, only secondarily (and in some cases not at all) for your beliefs.

    Your response just confirms my point: you don’t care about getting your message across to us; in your words, "I feel no need to make nice with the very people I think deserve a kick in the ass." That’s fine too. But you must not care much about your message, ultimately, if you’ve given up on being persuasive in this forum. I think people who really care about their message (as opposed to caring about, say, being perceived as radical) don’t give up on trying to persuade people.

  • What couldn’t you resist? Pointing out that my literary style, while grammatically correct, is not nearly as garrolous or as grandiloquent as that which you have chosen? Fantastic!

    You absolutely, positively cannot separate the message and the presentation. Many linguists and literary theorists would say in fact that the two almost refer to the same exact thing — Wittgenstein foremost amongst them.

    So, it isn’t that I haven’t been paying attention. It is that the teacher, while perhaps an expert at the subject matter, is an absolute failer _as a teacher_, which is the teacher’s stated goal.

    You have a message to spread. You have made several utterances. The message received as seen by the popular response to you is that Sympatico is rude or rambunctious.

    While I’d almost enjoy being called a rude and rambunctious provocateur (spelling?), I hesitate, thinking that the valuable message you’ve got bottled up is something perhaps distinct from that, at least to your own eyes.

    By the way, who are you quoting with the "Though he had a few converts…" business. I certainly didn’t say that — and I don’t think anyone else here has been on the subject recently. The point wasn’t that he was crucified in spite of winning popular approval. The point was that despite his earthly demise, if his goal was to spread a message, he achieved at least some measure of success both in his own time and later.

  • Extraia um retrato de o que eu penso de você. Para o crédito extra, dê-lhe um subtítulo na língua extrangeira de sua escolha.

    Talvez você não lê portuguêses? Minhas desculpas — você parece assim muito pretentious. Ampère-hora, eu disse "pretentious"? Eu pretendi dizer "informei."

  • you may be a kick-ass rhetorician in the real world too

    Too? :)

  • "too" in the sense that both his ethos and his kickassness may be intact in the real world, for all we know.

    heaven forfend, i didn’t mean that his kickassness manifests online in anyway!

  • You rock. :)

  • I figured as much, which is why the comment took me by surprise. :)

  • Albemarle County appropriated over 4.5 million dollars for this fiscal year for "Parks, Recreation & Culture" (see http://www.albemarle.org/budget/New_Folder/gf_exp.pdf). That’s more spent than for “Judicial”, “Public Works”, “Community Development” and not far reaching from even “Adminstration”.

    In that budget, you’ll find the “Lewis and Clark Festival” (http://www.lewisandclarkeast.org/) and its Keelboat enterprise.

    One could reason that rural folk, myself included, really don’t need Parks and Recreation. Heck, I’ve got a portion of a good-sized creek running through my own triathlon course! But I still support this budget wholeheartedly (for you poor suburban folks)!

    Now I’m sure there are other programs in place and in development (and that’s a good thing!), but I think I’ve anwsered your question of "any kind of public art". In fact, I hope Art-In-Place expands its stewardship to the county.

  • Je vois bien que celles qui peuvent, se rassemblent. C’est bien, tu peux continuer tes bêtises, ça m’est complètement égal. A bon entendeur, salut !

  • And I don’t like you either, nah nah nah nah nah!

    (that’s certainly less rude than "you suck")

  • You said: "What couldn’t you resist? Pointing out that my literary style"…

    No, that he was CRUCIFIED for his message, yet you’re glossing over his sacrifice in favor of his success establishing a few disciples. As on onlooker, his premature death is just a footnote in history, but from his perspective, he was tortured and died for his ultimate message.

    From yet another perspective, the majority (yes, THAT again) threw sticks and stones at him during his Calvary.

    Lastly, thanks for the characterization of "buffoon". Is that your effort to throw sticks and stones at me?

  • Du bist ein Dummkopf und bleibst ein Dummkopf, und jetzt will ich mich nicht mehr länger mit dir plagen und schleppen!!!

  • Bastarda d’una bufala. Spastica. Mongola. Scimmia. Aborto.

  • I didn’t gloss over his sacrifice. In fact, if anything, you have (by comparing your struggles to his implicitly).

    The point of my rebuttal to your Jesus Christ assertion was that he did in fact reach people; you have had absolutely no success. That is my point, no more, no less. I wasn’t urging that his struggles were anything but mighty or that the majority at his time did not condemn and stone him. Those are the straw-men assertions that you’ve concocted.

    "Buffoon" is sticks and stones but "demagogue" (as you used it) is not I suppose?

  • As was so well stated earlier:

    Your response just confirms my point: you don’t care about getting your message across to us; in your words, “I feel no need to make nice with the very people I think deserve a kick in the ass.” That’s fine too. But you must not care much about your message, ultimately, if you’ve given up on being persuasive in this forum. I think people who really care about their message (as opposed to caring about, say, being perceived as radical) don’t give up on trying to persuade people.

  • Okay, this could go on forever, and you are obviously intent more on *winning* than on understanding.

    You have no idea of my successes or failures. Who made you my judge, jury and executioner?

    And just as any self-respecting demagogue (which, with this last diatribe, I have now identified YOU as such), you are continuously trying to make me having said something I neither said nor intoned: "In fact, if anything, you have (by comparing your struggles to his implicitly)." So, when it comes down to this kind of crap, I drop out. Bye now!

  • Your brutality is only matched by your density.

  • Because the last word is generally sweetest:

    I did not say I was your judge, jury and executioner. I merely followed your observations to their logical conclusion:

    The assertions of yours that I was originally referring to

    You said:

  • You have a message to send – that is why you are here.
  • Your audience cannot follow you, for whatever reason.

    Hence, I conclude that either you have failed or your reason to be here is nullified (so you have no reason to be here).

    Given a traditional understanding of j, j and e, I am none of the three. At best, I am a ne’er-do-well suggesting that you’ve been misleading with your language.

    Oh, and by the way, things suggested implicitly are almost never said or intoned. If either of us has committed the crime of putting words in the other person’s mouth, it would seem to be you (see here and here).

  • Kill the messenger (me in this instance) rather than responding to the message (here the particular words of Cecil).

  • Gravel is heavy, and would require more "kick" to keep the pendulum swinging.

    Allowing people to directly swing the pendulum is not going to work, because they would not swing it straight, it would swing in large ellipses. Not to mention it needs to be VERY heavy and someone would get hurt. I know you’re not suggesting that, but just to point out its a bad idea.

    As for indirectly powering a mechanism with a spring, you still need to measure the position of the swing to decide what direction to kick it in. Even if you had an electrical sensor to move the physical device that pushes on the cable, you still run into the problem of having a physical connection to the cable. This would cause ocillations in the cable, which wouldn’t push the weight anywhere, just wag the cable to and fro.

    You need to push the cable at a certain time, with a certain pressure, in a certain direction at a certain point on the cable. You have to push on the cable below the anchor point at the top. Meaning if you attach something to the cable there, you’ve moved the anchor point down. Modern installations use a ring of sensors and electromagnets that gently push and tug at the cable for a moment at the right position in each swing, in the right direction.

    The best solution? Just plug the damn thing in.

  • Oh sure, just stomp on my dream with practicality. ;)

    The electromagnet scheme is probably best if you want to keep the pendulum in constant motion.

    Perhaps the answer for interactivity then, is to allow people to <i>start</i> the pendulum every so often, and not have a mechanism that keeps it constantly swinging.

    Yes, then we run into the problem of how they’re going to start it without going in and getting a very heavy piece of metal, and moving it to the edge of the swinging area… and potentially swinging it at their friends/enemies… and I don’t have a good answer for that one.

    Hrmph. Perhaps my dream would be more easily realized if we leave the whole interactivity piece out of it. *sighs*

  • A F.P. has basically three parts:

    1. A pendulum

    2. Something to get the pendulum going

    3. Something for the pendulum to knock over

    With some ingenuity, surely passers-by can occupy spots 1 or 3!

  • I will try to keep this to a 5th grade reading level. Anyone who compares themselves to jesus christ is nuts, no matter what he is talking about, or how he goes about saying it.

    If comparing yourself to jesus makes what you say more important, I’d like to point out that I LOOK a lot more like the traditional image of JC than you do. Since appearances are more important in our society than actions, I suggest that I am more like JC, and you are less. So I’m right, and you’re wrong, neener neeener :P

  • OOOOH, if we go with that idea, we could put it on TV and make it into some strange reality show, and actually turn a profit. Then we could afford to gold plate the entire city hall building.

    Sort of like jackass meets survivor. If we use tittie girls maybe fox will pick it up too!

  • After reading this site for at least several months now, I suggest this site register itself as a dating service.

    No kidding! I think that’s where it’s heading. The little alliances, wink-winks and cliques are reminiscent of K-12 atmosphere.

    What’s not really confusing to me is that a person trying so bad to be an original, like you do, attaches so much importance to what society thinks and consequently evaluates his likeness to Jesus Christ on that basis.

    First, no one really knows what JC looked like, traditional image or not. Second, if that’s what rocks your boat, then la di da. I, myself, resemble more a mature version of Keanu Reaves, but I doubt you give a shit: I don’t what you look like, so boo.

    Of course, maybe Hoo2LA is getting the hots for ya image there. But watch out, I think she’s the one that was defending S&M and you were the most adamant not liking it to sex.

    Then again, you may be a perfect match: she’ll be whipping you while you’re yelling "I’m the man!"

  • Although I only have the votes of two fat guys and a tall fool who is always putting his head where it don’t belong, the latest census suggests I ain’t quite as feminine as some would believe.

    Again, for the gold record — I was neither attacking nor defending S&M. Feel free to correct me by linking to a post where I even so much as suggested anything normatively about S&M.

    Also, you’ve now left me wondering whether you understand either terminus or demagogue…

  • oops! but with all that black leather on you, it ain’t easy to tell! nevertheless, i do admit (once is not necessarily customary), having my foot in my mouth!

  • I refuse to respond to demagogue, but the terminus was for you, not necessarily others. but then again, you’ve got me responding to you again…

  • Oh shit, our secret is out.

  • Peltons quote "My biggest issue is, I didn’t think it was done very well," seemed more like sour grape crituque than anything else. Gaffiti by definition is a rude inscription. The fact that these were smily faces (symbols) painted on another (symbol) seemed to me to be a very creative use of graffiti.

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