City Council is considerating updating the Downtown Mall cafe regulations. The Mall is, during peak cafe season, packed with over two dozen cafes. Council may decide to double the rates to get a cafe permit, and may also cut off restaurants’ access to the Mall’s antiquated electrical system. They’ll discuss this at their meeting on March 4th. The story is from WINA.
News and meta-news about Charlottesville, VA, since 2001.
Sideblog
Police announced this afternoon that their investigation into what was initially believed to be a fatal fire on Rugby Avenue is now a homicide investigation. #
The Virginia Supreme Court has denied George Huguely’s appeal. His second-degree murder conviction will stand, WRIC reports. #
In a carefully worded story, and not citing specific sources, WTVR reports that forensic evidence belonging to Jesse Matthew Jr., the main suspect in the disappearance of Hannah Graham, matches forensic evidence collected during the investigation of Morgan Harrington’s 2009 murder. #
In the wake of Hannah Graham’s disappearance, and the evidence that came from private security footage, city officials are revisiting the question of installing security cameras on the downtown mall. #
Both Charlottesville Registrar Sheri Iachetta and former Electoral Board member Stephanie Commander have turned themselves in to the police on
foursix and four felony counts of embezzlement, respectively. #Ten years ago, the National Institutes of Health budget doubled and schools like the University of Virginia built massive new research facilities. A decade later, those buildings remain largely underutilized. NPR visits UVA in this story on the effect of federal binge and spurge spending in the sciences. #
In 2012, Council approved a new student housing complex on West Main—now some council members are questioning whether what they were shown matches what was built. #
The Architectural Review Board has approved a bike-themed mural on West Market, below the McGuffey Art Center, although at least one member expressed concerns that it might look like the bicyclists were riding away from Charlottesville’s downtown. #
City Police Chief Tim Longo is meeting with city leaders to work on protocols regarding the use of military surplus police weapons in Charlottesville. #
A 100-year-old Colonnades resident received military honors for her service in the WWII Women’s Army Corps #
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Archive for Sideblog »
This isn’t a popular opinion among my restaurant-owning friends, but we’ve got to move to an auction-based system for cafes. As is evidenced by the proposal to fully double the rates, the city just isn’t getting fair market value for that real estate. Every summer, there are more and more cafes — quite soon, we’re going to run out of space. That’s when we’ll see arguments between restaurant owners over who gets to use the available space, and that’s when, I hope, they’ll start agreeing that we need to auction off these spaces.
Unless I’m mistaken, I believe the current rent is extremely low (I seem to remember hearing $10/sq.ft. for the season, but that may be an old figure). As things stand now, a restaurant can far more than double their seating at a very low rent. As a result, the Mall seems to be a little too crowded during the warm months.
Doubling the rent is a good start, but I agree that something more creative needs to be considered. Either an auction, or limiting a restaurant to the total number of square feet of seating they have indoors. An auction really sounds like the best idea, as it will allow the marketplace to set the rent. Perhaps they could even dedicate the funds for upgrading the electric?
Also, it’s ridiculous that one or more restaurants set up their cafes in locations that monopolize public fountains. That needs to end, or maybe they need to pay a lot higher rent for the added amenity of a fountain.
The cafes already take up too much space and crowd the mall. The city should increase the rent and rearrange the spaces so that the public spaces that have been taken over by restaurants become public again. An auction sounds like a great idea.
Waldo that is a very dumb idea. After years of begging people to come down to the mall the crowds have come. I not saying that some adjustments aren’t in order. Let the market place not deep pockets work out the cafes spaces. How could one out bid the owners of Blue Light, for example. More people, more meals tax. This reminds me of the old saying, ” That place is so crowded that no one goes there any more
“the Mall’s antiquated electrical system.” What siginicant power is used by outdoor cafes? They don’t cook outside. Besides the fact that this statement is just a bald face lie it’s illogical. So let me get this right, it’s the restaurants fault not the city’s? Take some meals & property tax money and fix it. Pointing fingers is poor mangement and vapid politics.
If auction are such good idea let’s do it for the city market and the stalls on the mall. The true crowding problem is the jewelry and cd’s stalls. They in no way pay the same amount of taxes for the space they occupy. It is a very shortsighted view to only look at the rent of the space. Be progessive and look at revenue generated-to do other is just plain wrong.
The true crowding problem is the jewelry and cd’s stalls. They in no way pay the same amount of taxes for the space they occupy.
I couldn’t agree more about vendors. And I say that having been a vendor on the Mall, and having known many of them over the years. But there are only certain times of year (notably pre-Christmas) when they really take over, and that’s when the restaurants aren’t out.
We have a basic problem here: we’re running out of Mall. We have to limit the number of cafes. Surely you’ll agree that there’s a point when there is simply no more space. When you consider the fire lanes, it’s clear that we’re almost at that point, save for on the east end of the Mall. We could either keep the rates the same and simply make the system lottery-based or first-come-first-served, or we could raise the rates. (Actually, we should probably raise the rates either way. Cafes are really cheap.) I’d be happy with the former as long as I know that the problem of far-too-low rent is taken care of. I’m no real estate expert, but I know that we have at least one or two here. How do we determine what fair market value is for cafe space on the Mall?
you still ignore the point about total revenue generated by a space. Fix the problem of space rationally. Of course after awhile restaurants with cafe space will be worth more money and generated more property and meals tax. You must admit that until you look at total dollars generated too the city you truely can’t say rents are to low. We are not running out of mall – we just not rational about how we deal with the mall we have. And I will assume that you agree that the electrical problem is without siginificant merit.
You must admit that until you look at total dollars generated too the city you truely can’t say rents are to low.
First, I did request input from a real estate agent. But second, I say that they’re too low because I’ve had several restauranteurs tell me over they years that cafe space is just incredibly cheap, and that they could certainly pay much more for it. (I used to work at Higher Grounds, Chaps, and the Java Hut, so I got friendly with the owners of neighboring establishments and often talked shop.)
Surely you’ll concede that, say, $1 / year / sq. ft. is too little. And also that $1,000,000 / year / sq. ft. is too much. Perhaps it is worth determining where in between those two prices we have a rate that serves the city best, instead of assuming that the current, static rate is appropriate?
We are not running out of mall – we just not rational about how we deal with the mall we have.
Two sides of the same coin. :)
And I will assume that you agree that the electrical problem is without siginificant merit.
I have no idea. :)
I am not questioning that the rent is right or wrong. And your ignoring the process of considering total revenue generated when look at what rents should be. The question remains should meals tax revenues be considered when look at rent? It is for that reason your $1 or 1 million is simply reducing the question of rent to the absurd.
The auction idea is the best way to go, to allow for the market itself to set the value.
Market value is what the price that any “ready, willing and able” person without undue outside pressure will pay for x property.
However, the statement that the owners of the Blue Light (as an example) could probably outbid the owners of Bashirs is a fair statement.
There is simply no easy answer. The capitalist market dictates that we use some form of auction.
How will they divvy (sp?) up the mall space? Use yellow police tape? Chalk on the bricks?
–JD
If you took more time to type out your thoughts, your ideas would sound much more cogent. As it stands, I am unable to get past your typos and misspellings … the idea gets lost in the scribble-scrabble.
your loss or is it you are lost?
Grammar nazis always talk about more the structure then the ideas. It’s easier and take less thought.
I’ll wager when you took english you studied great writers not editors.
They would not have been great writers if they had written simply from a stream-of-consciousness. Great writers may write quickly at first, but I’ll wager that what we have read and studied were not their first drafts.
“However, the statement that the owners of the Blue Light (as an example) could probably outbid the owners of Bashir’s is a fair statement.”
Fair and accurate, yes, but is this considered a problem? If the cafe space is determined to be worth, say, $20/sq.ft./mo., then should Bashir’s be entitled to pay less than that because they can’t afford to pay the market rate?
Great, remind me next time I get paid for the “great American post”. It’s a message board, nothing more. All I ask is if you want to be critical, please start with the logic first not just the grammar.
Consider all my post a first draft, OK? Maybe Waldo will offer the “blue pencil” option. Do you want those of lesser grammatical skills to refrain from offending you gentle sensibilities at all? Or is it that you have nothing else to say?
I wasn’t saying that Bashir’s or any other smaller business should be entitled to a “discount” or whatever it may be called, but frankly that it sucks to be the little guy (from the little guy’s point of view).
Were I representative of Blue Light and their breed, I would love the auction opportunity, as it would be a means by which to keep out the little guy.
It’s always about the money.
–JD
Do science majors not have to write journals and papers, too?
I have plenty to say; I just tend to take my time gathering my thoughts so as not to seem like I am shooting my mouth off.
A well-written and coherent thought is much more readable, and indicates the author is of the congizant sort.
Your ignore the problem of location. Bashir has to be in front of his restaurant. Blue Light has to be in front of theirs. Would auctions only work where there was competition and therefore those with an uncluttered location pay less? Blue Light will have no other bids for it’s space but Chaps might have to spend a fortune. The auction isn’t just for any space- and that is where an auction’s logic starts to break down.
And still not one word about the post other than grammar. Thank you for making my point. Now get back to grading papers!
Would only restauranteuers be involved in the auctions? What about potential vendors? What would prevent Blue Light from buying more than what is in front of their property? Were I in their position, I would buy up as much as possible in order to manipulate and control the market.
Would an outsider (investor) be permitted to participate in the auction? If not, why not?
–jd
You do make an excellent point. It is all about location, location, and location.
All I know is the Downtown Mall is starting to resemble a really tasteless shopping mall food court. Anything that might tend to limit the size of cafes would probably help – let’s face it, some of the cafes are really huge. The Nook’s is probably 3-times the size of their indoor seating area, while Chap’s cafe might be about the same or smaller than its indoor capacity.
that is a great point. I just don’t ever see city council allowing that much free market. But it would allow people that don’t want clutter in front of a building to prevent it.
“I would buy up as much as possible in order to manipulate and control the market.” What about a cartel? A few restaurants could get together and prevent others from having cafes. But I can already hear the cry’s of fairness from the losers of the auction.
What? Your point that spelling properly is anathema to you?
Good word anathema. Anathema from the Greek, thing devoted to evil. Your devotion to grammar at the exclusion of actual conversation is indeed your anathema.
Waldo barely got through high school and currently holds the record for most number of rejections from UVa, so he definitely wasn’t an English major.
Your grammar was so poor that the message had to be deciphered to be understood. All you had to do was proofread a couple of sentences and then we could have understood you.
Hey Grammar Nazi, Isn’t your last post what’s called redundant or would you prefer superfluous.
Now run along to Court Square where you can impress others with today’s posting erudition.
HIS WHOLE *POINT* IS THAT HE CAN’T BE CRITICAL OF THE LOGIC OF YOUR MESSAGE IF THE LOGIC IS TOTALLY OBFUSCATED BY YOUR LACK OF COHERENT WRITING. WE’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT MISSING COMMAS OR CAPITALIZATION, WE’RE TALKING ABOUT BASIC COMMUNICATION SKILLS.
Now go ahead and accuse me of elitism and complain that I used the word “obfuscated.”
[/rant]
By the way, I noticed that your subsequent posts became more readable once someone called you out on it.
see post February 21 @ 14:53:50 EST
Excellent point, sir!
You’re both right. Now knock it off. Don’t make me come back there! :)
The best part, of course, is that you’re both posting anonymously, so you won’t recognize one another in other threads, so you can’t carry this on. :)
After wading though this I have a couple questions.
1. How do you know it is a he?
2. Why didn’t “he” ever do anything but talk about syntax.
3. How come “he”,the english major, got whupped on all the clever retorts?
4. Why the hell did I bother to read the whole thing? I am in serious need of a life.
5. Why are you still reading this and do you need a life?
How do you know it is a he?
Don’t know, don’t care, but it’s more polite than saying “it.”
Why didn’t “he” ever do anything but talk about syntax.
Because “he” couldn’t understand the content of the message due to its incoherency. You’ve got to fix the holes in the ship before you can sail it.
How come “he”,the english major, got whupped on all the clever retorts?
I don’t know, but I’m glad he did. To me, that means his initial criticism had the effect of elevating the other writer’s coherency.
Why the hell did I bother to read the whole thing? I am in serious need of a life.
Don’t be so hard on yourself. ;)
Why are you still reading this and do you need a life?
I tried to buy one on eBay but I got outbid.