UVA fourth-year and women’s lacrosse team member Yeardley Love was found dead in a Fourteenth Street apartment early this morning, and fellow lacrosse player George Hugely has been arrested and charged with first-degree murder. Both are 22, from Maryland, and are said to have had a relationship. Police say that Love’s body showed signs of trauma, but they’re awaiting the results of an autopsy to say anything further about her death.
News and meta-news about Charlottesville, VA, since 2001.
Sideblog
Police announced this afternoon that their investigation into what was initially believed to be a fatal fire on Rugby Avenue is now a homicide investigation. #
The Virginia Supreme Court has denied George Huguely’s appeal. His second-degree murder conviction will stand, WRIC reports. #
In a carefully worded story, and not citing specific sources, WTVR reports that forensic evidence belonging to Jesse Matthew Jr., the main suspect in the disappearance of Hannah Graham, matches forensic evidence collected during the investigation of Morgan Harrington’s 2009 murder. #
In the wake of Hannah Graham’s disappearance, and the evidence that came from private security footage, city officials are revisiting the question of installing security cameras on the downtown mall. #
Both Charlottesville Registrar Sheri Iachetta and former Electoral Board member Stephanie Commander have turned themselves in to the police on
foursix and four felony counts of embezzlement, respectively. #Ten years ago, the National Institutes of Health budget doubled and schools like the University of Virginia built massive new research facilities. A decade later, those buildings remain largely underutilized. NPR visits UVA in this story on the effect of federal binge and spurge spending in the sciences. #
In 2012, Council approved a new student housing complex on West Main—now some council members are questioning whether what they were shown matches what was built. #
The Architectural Review Board has approved a bike-themed mural on West Market, below the McGuffey Art Center, although at least one member expressed concerns that it might look like the bicyclists were riding away from Charlottesville’s downtown. #
City Police Chief Tim Longo is meeting with city leaders to work on protocols regarding the use of military surplus police weapons in Charlottesville. #
A 100-year-old Colonnades resident received military honors for her service in the WWII Women’s Army Corps #
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Archive for Sideblog »
Wow, you’ve got Haiyang Zhu as “the lopper” down at Tech, and now this. Youngsters these days. Sounds like cops were on the ball though.
The DP’s photos of both UVa students is ridiculous. The young woman in her beautiful yearbook photo, the young man in his jail stripes. The Cav Daily, not trying to sell papers just distribute them to fellow students, has photos of the students in their lax uniforms. Just such different methods of identifying them.
When are we going to teach our sons that threatening, humiliating and hurting their partners is not acceptable?
When are we going to teach our daughters that if he threatens, humiliates or hurts, it is not love?
ugh, can you imagine getting a phone call that your daughter was dead at the hands of her boyfriend? Can you imagine getting a phone call that your son was in jail under suspicion of killing his girlfriend?
The kid has a lawyer and a line of defense now.
“Defense lawyer Francis Lawrence says he is confident the death of a women’s lacrosse player from the same school, Yeardley Love, was not intended.”
Something about this brief statement makes me almost physically ill.
When are we going to stop being so superficial and teach our sons AND daughters that there’s more to life than a BMW SUV in the driveway of the big McMansion and shagging up with the most popular dude(ettes) or belonging to some College Sport team?
When are we going to teach our daughters that if they want to be treated respectfully, they need to provide same in return?
Can you imagine the world if our society was more fair and balanced? If we didn’t glorify bad behavior (movies, rock bands, politicians, C-suite vampires)? If we cared about others and our planet?
Just imagine, yeah…
@Rick– the DP seems to always uses mug shots when available. If they did otherwise in this case, it would bring them all sorts of accusations of special treatment for the rich, white athlete. I think it is good that they followed the precedent they have set in other crimes.
Maybe newrags shouldn’t show *anyone* in a mug shot until they have had a fair trial? Just maybe, ‘former teacher’? Uh???
Generally, that’s the only public photo available of a person. To the extent to which it is important to properly identify a suspect (if only to ensure that there’s no confusion about which John Smith has been arrested for child molestation), media outlets have no choice but to publish the booking photo.
Was this the case here (only public photo available)? The mug shot was not necessary. IMO, there’s no valid reason to show a mug shot of any accused with no prior record. Name, age, description, known addresses would suffice if there’s no other photo. Do we need to discuss why this behavior is egregiously biased?
BTW, what if there was no prior photo of the victim? Do we publish the cadaver?
Majung, what are you talking about with this stuff about BMWs in the driveway? What does that have to do with anything? Sounds to me like you are seriously jumping to conclusions about both of these people and then running way, waaay ahead and trying to instantly extrapolate those baseless conclusions into some kind of morality play about all of society.
The fact that Gerald Rivera does it on TV doesn’t make it logical.
The fact you can’t see the relevance proves my case. Most people live completely isolated from the real world.
For instance, how did it come that College Sports has such a Grand role today? Simple, you say, it’s the money stoopid! But why does College Sports imply that? More importantly, what are the consequences of promoting Sports to such a high position of power and recognition? Think about it for more than one moment… Essentially, it reconfigures the very premise of academia and especially changes the approach and attitude of the young people for which these institutions were INSTITUTED.
Etc.
I am glad the DP showed the mug shot. It is only fair to the other accused people they show. Just because he is a rich UVa student doesn’t make him any better that us Shifflett’s or Morris’s when it comes to getting locked up at the complex. His lawyer has already planted the “accident” seed. Brilliant, all he needs now is your typical jurors made up of retirees, post office employees, and other idiots who couldn’t get out of jury duty to buy it. He will be out on bond in June, and attending college next spring semester.
Instead of rectifying an invalid process, it is best to put everyone through it rather than correcting it? Again, I rest my case.
News outlets shifted from showing both Love’s and Huguely’s UVa lax publicity photos to showing Love’s lax publicity photo and Huguely’s mugshot, once the mugshot became available.
I’m not sure what college sports have to do with this issue — what I mean is, I don’t see why this is a story about “College Sports” rather than a story about a murder of one person by another person. I do understand Majunga’s point about college sports reconfiguring the premises of academia — but I also believe that if there were no college sports, something else would reconfigure the premises of academia. The U.S. has a long and tenacious tradition of anti-intellectualism; it’s hardly as if college sports is the prime mover in that regard.
There is no dispute that pictures are very powerful and can tell a story on their own.
In general, we try to use the most up-to-date photo of a person as possible. When this story first broke, we used the image of Mr. Huguely from the same place as Ms. Love, their lacrosse team photos from http://www.virginiasports.com. We switched to using Mr. Huguely’s booking photo when it was released to the media by authorities.
Other news outlets are still using official lax publicity photos instead of the mugshot, like the story on ESPN.com and the AP story about the defense’s claim that it was an “accident.”
God — if you go to the DP now and read the affidavits they filed to get the search warrants, maybe you’ll feel as ill as I do.
That poor, poor woman. :( I read the article Cecil posted a few moments ago and came to see if it had been posted yet.
It’s not a story about “College Sports”. It’s a story about the decline of ethics and real productivity throughout our society. College Sports and its history were a particularly appropriate illustration.
Did I explain it simply enough or do you require further assistance?
It’s a national story now and they love to cover rich blondies in glamor shots. Morgue photos and mugshots are too real for the people who produce at the pretend-news media. Kudos to the DP and other local media for better work.
Majung, maybe I’m as stupid as you insinuate others are, but I agree that you are launching into issues not related to this story. A murder has been committed by a privileged student athlete, but I don’t think it is fair to condemn all athletics or point to the decline of academia, ethics, productive society, etc. etc. You paint with a very broad brush. What of student athletes that good honest citizens? What of murderers who weren’t athletes or academics? I think a lot of people will use this case to condemn UVA, the rich, athletes, and any other group they don’t like and can possibly attach to this killer. They shouldn’t – it shows ignorance. UVA, prep schools, lacrosse, and BMWs didn’t kill this young woman, a violent murderer did, and unfortunately they come from all backgrounds.
Quote: “I think a lot of people will use this case to condemn UVA, the rich, athletes, and any other group they don’t like and can possibly attach to this killer.”
I don’t see the relevance to what I wrote. Take your nose off the wall, then several steps back and perhaps my brush strokes may reveal the big picture.
Majung, you are making zero sense. These are two students who happened to both be lacrosse players. Are you trying to suggest that this guy killed this girl *because* they were lacrosse players? You might as well say its because one of them was an Aries and the other was a Scorpio or whatever.
And what the hell are you trying to imply about ‘ethics and the decline of productivity?’ What evidence do you have that either of these people were ‘unproductive’ or ‘unethical?’ You are talking out of your ass.
This is LACROSSE that we’re talking about. Nobody in Charlottesville except other lacrosse players and their families gives a shit about lacrosse. These people aren’t exactly rock stars.
Some dude appears to have broken up with his girlfriend, went apeshit on her, and now she’s dead. This is a terrible thing and this guy is probably responsible for it. Beyond that, there are no broad cultural judgments to be made. Jilted asshole lovers have been going into violent rages since time immemorial. This same story could have happened anywhere in the world at any time in history.
Yeah, I don’t see the connection either except that they probably met through their respective college sports teams. This could have been any boyfriend/girlfriend and happens everyday across the globe to every walk of life. Sometimes the outcome is just as tragic. We wouldn’t need groups like SARA if it didn’t happen.
As far as the comment “IMO, there’s no valid reason to show a mug shot of any accused with no prior record.” Huguley was arrested in Lexington in Nov 98 on public intoxication & resisting arrest. (Source:
(my skills, they fail me) The URL I attempted to link: http://www.nbc29.com/global/story.asp?s=12416452
Quote: “Huguley was arrested in Lexington in Nov 98 on public intoxication & resisting arrest.”
So if he’s 22 now in 2010, that would have made him 10 years old? Nice…
Jack wrote: “This same story could have happened anywhere in the world at any time in history.”
Uh, no.
Jack wrote: “Are you trying to suggest that this guy killed this girl *because* they were lacrosse players?”
Uh, no. But are you suggesting that someone – remember, Huguely’s not guilty until proven so – killed Love *because* they may not be compatible horoscope wise? You make no sense at all.
Uh, no. But are you suggesting that someone – remember, Huguely’s not guilty until proven so – killed Love *because* they may not be compatible horoscope wise? You make no sense at all.
Jesus Christ, reading comprehension much?
He’s suggesting that the “he did it because they are lacrosse players/have been corrupted by the Big College Sport machine” is as ludicrous as “he did it because she’s a scorpio” or whatever.
…
So I made a typo. If you’d bothered to read the story from NBC29 you would have seen that. (2008 for the folks catching up)
This story could and HAS happened anywhere at anytime. A google search for “man beats up and kills gurilfrinds” gives me:
Results 1 – 10 of about 24,800,000 for man beats up and kills girlfriend.
Its 932,000 results for man beats up and kills girlfriend accidently.
“If we cared about others and our planet?
Just imagine, yeah…” Yeah, I can imagine. And hope and dream. But I also know that this is the real world and just turning on the news or reading the paper shows me that our fellow humans can be cruel, heartless and uncaring.
Majung, your intelligence and insight is obviously on a level that none of us mere mortals can comprehend because, yet again, you’ve rendered baffled dozens of people with the morsels of brilliance that drip from your lips and collect in our cocked pinnas. I suggest that you find a venue where your genius might be better recognized. Perhaps you could start with YouTube comments.
Majung,
You can call us idiots all you want, but the fact remains that your formula of “College Lacrosse exists -> Guy murdered his girlfriend” has a few hols in it.
Now, I’m perhaps the last person who would ever be mistaken for a fan or supporter of college sports (or any organized sports for that matter), but your claims are patently ridiculous.
I for one would want to know a LOT more about this case before casting aspersions of any kind around. Obviously the suspect (well, if he’s found guilty) is the one who is at fault here — BUT it would be useful to know such things as: does he have a history of violence? of violence towards women? was their relationship an abusive relationship? were there warning signs? did he have a reputation as a misogynist? was this guy on any meds? had he been encouraged to seek help for his problems, or was he encouraged and supported by those around him? were their mutual friends aware of any sort of trouble? were there missed opportunities to stop this situation before it escalated to the degree that it did?
When we found out things like this — and ONLY then — we can start to look at what can be done (apart from locking this guy up for a long time) to try to prevent this or something similar from happening in the future. In situations like this, especially when there’s a lot of media attention, folks always looking around to point fingers (such as in the Morgan Harrington case, for example), BUT it can also be an opportunity, however unfortunate the cause, to try to change our community for the better.
I’m assuming the answer to at least some of those questions I posed above is Yes — nice guys don’t just decide out of the blue one day to beat their girlfriends to death — but I think it’s important to consider all the facts before jumping to any hasty conclusions as to what other aspects of society are to blame.
That said, the analogy that (I think) you’re trying to make here would not be a sound one under ANY circumstances; you seem to be saying that it should be obvious to everyone that “Lacrosse Player = College Student = Rich Person = Entitled Person = Violent Murderer,” which is simply not the case. If it were, we would have a corresponding 1:1 ratio of LAX Players to Murderers in Charlottesville.
Quote: “This story could and HAS happened anywhere at anytime. A google search for “man beats up and kills gurilfrinds” gives me:
Results 1 – 10 of about 24,800,000 for man beats up and kills girlfriend.
Its 932,000 results for man beats up and kills girlfriend accidently.”
Wow, they had Google a hundred years ago? 500 years ago? Oh, maybe they came out with that during the Renaissance? I bet.
Quote: ” I suggest that you find a venue where your genius might be better recognized. Perhaps you could start with YouTube comments.”
You’re projecting. My “genius” doesn’t need an audience. My purpose is completely different from yours. Please try to remember that.
Quote: “you seem to be saying that it should be obvious to everyone that “Lacrosse Player = College Student = Rich Person = Entitled Person = Violent Murderer,” which is simply not the case. If it were, we would have a corresponding 1:1 ratio of LAX Players to Murderers in Charlottesville.”
But you’re so *right*, once again, Waldo. Your readers seem so stoopid & ADHD’ed, they can’t follow one thread to the next. Bye for now…
This story is too serious and too sad for the type of commentary offered by Majung. I suggest that if he/she comes back again in the same vein that all other posters refuse to engage.
Confused,
Good research. Thank you.
Majung,
I’m sure that everything you are saying makes perfect sense in your head, but somehow when you try to turn it into words nobody follows your logic. I’ve been reading most of these people’s comments here for years and I know that they are intelligent and attentive. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that the fault in communication lies on your end rather than among the rest of the world.
I’m with Gail.
By some coincidence, I found a link yesterday which may prove helpful:
http://www.cracked.com/funny-3809-internet-argument-techniques/
I’ll point out something astonishingly unprofessional that has since been corrected: when I first linked to the DP story that had links to the affidavits for search warrants, the names of the witnesses and the SS# of the accused were not blacked out. They are now. But for some period of time anyone who looked at those affidavits from the DP’s site could see the names of the people who called 911 and the SS# of Huguely. That’s just an astonishing oversight on someone’s part.
Next time he does something stupid, I’ll just ban him. He’s had plenty of warnings over the course of many years.
There’s nothing stupid about my arguments. Believe it or not, there are plenty of bright people that not only agree with them, but fully support them. Just not this crowd of provincial small-minded droids here on cvillenews. Until the Grand Poobah of twits bans me, which he will hasten to do no doubt immediately, I will post what is more so valuable and relevant to the local story at hand, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you all feel. Have a nice day.
This is what is inherently wrong with blogs. They serve a great purpose for open conversation but they allow a few questionable folks to join the conversation for the wrong reasons (often with several alias)…aka majung, cvilleye…etc to have destructive views. You sit in an anxious seat Waldo but you do a good job of being fair and allowing constructive conversation.
Yeah, you’re right—we’re done here. I’m no longer willing to allow Majung/Majunga/Sympatico to behave like an ass and ruin every conversation in which he participates.
Majung, this server is private property, property which you may no longer access. If you post any further comments on cvillenews.com, I’ll be delivering a cease and desist order to your ISPs, which should be easy, since I’m both a customer and friends with the owners of the one that you use the most. Should that prove insufficient, then I will seek legal assistance to prohibit you from further access to the server. Note, too, that I will no longer respect any right to anonymity on your part. If I have to continue to deal with you, I will be referring to you in public by your real name.
I’ve gone through this many times on my various websites in the past 12 years, with 100% success. We can do this the easy way, or we can do it the hard way. It’s your call.
@Waldo, you forgot one more old alias. ‘Fang-Face Dream Weaver.’ I have a funny story about that guy and the virtual Chalkboard that I should tell you some time.
Unfortunately, I have the feeling that the defense attorney for Huguely is going to have a better than fair shot at getting this reduced from murder one (which is NOT eligible for the death penalty, only capital is) to manslaughter. Starting with suggesting it was an accident, that his client was drunk, next thing will be “there was no premeditation, it was a drunken angry response”….
If he keeps pushing hard enough, a jury will fall for it.
I don’t really care about this issue one way or the other. But for the sake of debate…
Since it’s not easily found just by wandering around on the website, here’s the link to his “team photo”.
http://www.virginiasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17800&ATCLID=1133555
A photo does make a difference. Using a booking photo helps color the jury pool. Trying to use the most “up to date” photo… is really just an excuse to justify the use of a more “sensationalize-able photo”.
Just my opinion.
What he did was horrible.
Gee, where’s the “Gasbag” when I need him?
Let us ponder what would have happened had the young woman not died. What if he had “merely” physically assaulted her? How would the University have handled this? I recall the Smith case, when one young student physically assaulted another. What criminal prosecution did he face? In the Allston/Sisk slaying, the UVA student killer received a sentence of three years and was out of jail in one.
There have been numerous sexual assaults perpetrated by UVA students against other UVA students that have resulted in absolutely zero criminal liability for the perpetrator over the years.
Let us ponder the possibility that this young man did not intend to kill this young woman. Placed in the historical context of the above criminal happenstances, what would have led him to believe that he could get away with such an assault?
Have some UVA students learned that they can get away with such crimes or, if they are caught, that they will get a light sentence? Where would they have learned this lesson?
The university is a business and using a velvet glove on non lethal offenders is their policy. Fred Smith Jr got away with his assault, no one ever dared question the validity of Daisy Lundy’s rather far fetched assault claim (and she spun it into an administrator of diversity job after graduation) and in this case, had it just been an assault, Huguely would have agreed to a one term suspension and alcohol abuse counseling for his “mistake”.
This is certainly an interesting thought exercise.
It’s a thought exercise indeed. I’m not sure how productive it is to speculate about what would have happened to Huguely if he had not killed her.
I believe Fred Smith spent time in jail (21 days). He pled guilty to misdemeanor assault. The UJC voted to expel him (though the administration softened that ruling to a suspension). I would have voted for harsher punishment, probably, but I’m not sure that’s “getting away” with his assault.
I guess the point I’m trying to get at could be paraphrased as this: at what point does UVA’s policy vis a vis student on student violence, sexual assault, etc. become a public safety issue?
For the sake of this discussion, imagine he only intended to slap her around a little. Based on his knowledge of what’s happened in other, previous, similar situations, perhaps he didn’t really fear the repercussions.
Now, with this line of thinking you could easily get on the slippery slope towards zero tolerance for all nuisance crimes. But I think the velvet glove for violent offenders (sexual assaults, battery) is a policy that could have led this young man to believe that he was virtually immune to the consequences for whatever it was he intended to do.
I understand that there may have been death threats and certainly that shows premeditation. My thought exercise would be moot, obviously. But I think that any University policy that suggests tolerance for violence by UVA students as a distinct group of individuals should be reviewed and revised by the incoming University president.
I fail to understand how university policy has anything to do with CRIMES. You hit someone you can be arrested, period. The University has its own system but no one is precluded from seeking legal redress in all the normal channels.
It’s not the University that beat and killed this young woman- something worth remembering as many in this town try to make sense of this senseless crime.
I work with college students. UVa college students. Student athletes. Based on what I see on a daily basis, I really don’t think that UVa’s past “velvet glove” treatment of assaults, or the perception that UVa is soft on violent offenders, entered into George Huguely’s mind. I don’t think college students do that kind of calculus–“hmm, I see that in 1999 Fred Smith got away with an assault and John Casteen adjusted the UJC’s verdict from expulsion to suspension, so I guess I’ll be okay if I go over to Yeardley’s place and beat her up! Sweet!”
Try it this way: suppose in 1999 UVa had come down like a sack of hammers on Fred Smith. It’s 2010, and a kid like GH who appears to have had serious anger-management issues gets angry with his girlfriend. He’s going to think to himself “wait, I’m at UVa — a school with a sterling reputation for strict consequences for violent behavior. I guess I’ll just go talk to her quietly instead”? really?
I’m not trying to be sarcastic; I just think it’s massively simplistic to imagine that people, young people in particular, do this rational analysis of the possible consequences before they act. Don’t we already know that capital punishment has little/no deterrent effect, for the same reasons — sociopaths and people caught up in a murderous rage don’t stop and calculate the consequences before they act.
Me, here’s what I think we’re dealing with: a young man who for whatever reason had absolutely no points of reference outside of his own wants and urges. He wasn’t thinking of what others would think or do in his situation, nor of what others would think of what he was doing — he was utterly absorbed in his own world, utterly solipsistic.
As an entirely separate issue, of course I believe the U should come down like a sack of hammers on violence at the U. But I just think it’s a stretch to suggest that GH felt empowered somehow by the U’s past stance towards violent acts.
While that is factually and legally accurate, I don’t think that reflects the reality of student life. Remember that UVA (like many colleges) is a self-contained unit for many students. They don’t live in Charlottesville, or Albemarle—they’re at UVA. UVA is where all of their friends are, their authority figures, the police force that they likely encounter most frequently, the rules that govern their day-to-day life, their social support network, etc.
Remember in grade school, how some kid might slug you one day? If you did anything about it (other than hit him back :), you went to a teacher or the principal, not the police. Assault is a crime. You hit someone you can be arrested, period. But social norms are a powerful force, so kids probably don’t tell a teacher, and they certainly don’t go to the police. That doesn’t change much between the senior year of high school and the freshman year of college a few months later.
Did the police have to get a search warrant, to look around the young ladys’ apartment, once they suspected that this was more than an alcohol overdose? Did the police morandize the suspect before attempting to question him or did they let him confess before giving him his rights? I do not know a lot about the law, but I think that with a sharp lawyer a lot of evidence which will be used against the defendant could be ruled out by a judge. I can almost see in some way where the verdict if found guilty might even be overturned on appeal. If his lawyer continues to scream accident, accident I can even see where this could be reduced down to an assualt and battery charge resulting in accidental death. Probably just a little foggy thinking or lack there of on my part, just my .02. Waldo keep me in the group.
I don’t disagree Waldo, at all with what you are saying- We might even agree that there is probably a dividing line between misdemeanors and felonies, in term of where UVa ends and Charlottesville cops begin. It is also worth mentioning that college sports teams are a subgroup that have another set of rules that are even more inside the system the the general student population. Of course, these days your grade school incident may now be a part of the “bullying” laws that govern what use to be playground rules.
Perhaps students should seek outside help if the University is not acting in the student population’s best interest. Cecil’s last comment is one I agree with as well.
perlogik, it’s a bit of a stretch to go from “I think that any University policy that suggests tolerance for violence by UVA students as a distinct group of individuals should be reviewed and revised by the incoming University president.” to “the University … beat and killed this young woman”, to put it mildly.
Cecil and Waldo’s points are germane to the discussion that I would want to have. Could the policies at UVA be revised towards a greater emphasis on the safety and rights of the victim of these kinds of crimes? I mean, why should a student have to seek redress once the UVA system asserts its authority, unless the UVA system does not adequately enforce the law?
The most fruitful discussion, for me, would be one that asks, what can the U do to establish social norms under which students routinely report the signs of domestic violence, in which male friends don’t let friends beat up their girlfriends (or even joke about beating up their girlfriends), in which female friends don’t let friends accept abusive behavior from their boyfriends (and I don’t mean to exclude same-sex relationships from the penumbra of this issue). I think establishing social norms under which the students themselves reject abusive behavior and shame/ostracize/whatever those who violate the social norms would be far more effective than a show of force after the fact. I think human beings are far more effectively shaped and controlled (if you will) by the norms of their communities rather than by the possibility of future punishment.
I think that if throughout his life GH’s friends and family and coaches and teammates had reacted with horror, disappointment, disgust every time he violated what should be a social norm (that you don’t get violent with an arresting officer, that you don’t get violent with your girlfriend), then he might have learned to modify his behavior if only to keep in good standing with his community.
Again, that’s not to say that the U shouldn’t punish offenders: those offended against deserve no less. But I wouldn’t want to confuse “punishment for offenders” with “effective methods for reducing future transgressions.”
C&P@UVA, given limited information at hand, I think that no policy in place would have prevented this kind of violence. I wish it were otherwise. Nor did I suggest that “the university..beat and killed this woman” was what you said.
Now if it is shown that this guy had a a history of violence or bad behavior @ UVa then that will change the discussion to exactly what you are talking aobut. It just seems the wrong time to seemingly blame the University for the actions of this murderous thug.
re:”if it is shown that this guy had a a history of violence or bad behavior @ UVa ”
This kind of speaks to my point. He committed a crime in Lexington and was convicted and sentenced while attending UVA. He threatened to kill a police officer. He gets a pass for that because it didn’t happen on the UVA grounds? If it did happen on UVA grounds, would he have been expelled?
Why should UVA students be permitted to commit violent crimes anywhere? What exactly is the code of conduct? That’s not a rhetorical question, I honestly don’t know.
Regardless, it may well be that a history of violence or bad behavior at UVA will be shown. The police have recovered a letter written to the young victim, as well as the laptops on which he presumably composed emails to her. Threats of violence are assaults.
And I’m not saying a policy would have prevented this crime, but I’m speaking more to what I think is Cecil’s point. Is there a culture of permissiveness at UVA that at the least didn’t curtail his murderous thoughts? Are there policies enforced by the University that reinforce this culture?
C&P: “Is there a culture of permissiveness at UVA that at the least didn’t curtail his murderous thoughts?”
People who do evil deeds, by definition, exit the bounds of acceptable actions set by their culture.
I’m a very long way from a defender of UVa. But I find it difficult to believe that any institution can “curtail [the] murderous thoughts” of a single individual who, as Cecil said, appears to have been utterly absorbed in his own anger. People do evil deeds, whether at UVa or a few miles east where the same crime between two different individuals wouldn’t have gotten the slightest bit of national media attention.
There are quite a few things that I do blame on UVa and its entitlement culture. An individual crime of domestic violence isn’t one of them.
You don’t exactly get my point, C&P. I don’t think the culture at UVa had much to do with the actions of an overly aggressive, impulsive, solipsistic young man – any more than the culture of the U.S. at large had to do with it, that is. He was undoubtedly like that when he came here. I absolutely do not think that UVa’s stance towards violence between students (whether that stance is “permissive” or not) contributed much more than a mote to this incident, if that.
Josh and Cecil, excellent points.
Regardless, it will be interesting to see what, if any, institutional changes are implemented in the coming months in regards to violence against women at UVA.
Jogger, there’s no such crime as assault and battery accidentally leading to death. That’s second degree murder, and it carries up to a 40-year sentence. Killing someone when you only meant to beat the tar out of them is not, legally speaking, negligent or accidental, it’s malicious.
Being drunk doesn’t change that either – premeditation, deliberation, and specific intent, which can be deemed impossible to form due to drunkenness, are all elements of murder-1; murder-2 requires only malice, which is *not* incompatible with drunkenness.
Alston got his charge reduced by apparently convincing the jury that Sisk had attacked him; I doubt very much that will fly here, or that the defense will even try it.
Of course, there’s always the chance the police will mess up the investigation and blow the case or make it necessary to plea-bargain down below what’s warranted, but I think it’s premature to speculate about that here. The police are saying all his statements came after his Miranda warning. I’m sure the facts will come to light as the case progresses.
One dumb question. Yeardley lived in a small apt. complex. At 12-2 am on a Sunday night you are telling me no one heard anything? I can’t imagine he was sneaky quiet while doing this.
bobbinthehook, I know from reports that the door to the apartment was open, and GH just walked in. He kicked down the door to YL’s bedroom. Yes, from that point on, I would think it would be very loud, but GH was able to access the aparment without confrontation. I hope no one heard and did nothing.
From the Post article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/31/AR2006033101879.html?nav=hcmodule) that quoted GH and his father talking about the Duke lax thing a few years back (some of the accused were classmates with GH at Landon Prep)
Quote:
Huguely’s father, George, Sr. said yesterday that he’s had discussions with his son, who will play at University of Virginia next season, about staying out of situations that could be costly.
“Regardless of what winds up happening, you have to learn from this experience and take what you can from it,” George Huguely Sr. said. “You always have to remember and can’t let yourself be in a situation where something like this could happen.”
End quote
Kind of chilling. The takeaway: protect your reputation at all costs. “Situations that could be costly” indeed.
I’m with Cecil here.
There is no expansive moral lesson here about schools and athletes and norms or whatever. I realize that a lot of people have axes to grind about that sort of thing and this seems like a very tempting story to impose that narrative to. But it just ain’t there.
Asking what would be happening if YL hadn’t died in the assault *is* a worthwhile and important question.
If he had shot her with a pistol, there would be no question about intent whether the victim lived or died. If you deliberately point a gun at someone and deliberately pull the trigger, that is an attempt to kill. Any sane person has to assume that such an act is likely to result in death.
As far as we know, GH did not use any type of weapon. He appears to have killed her with his bare hands. I happen to agree that it is *possible* that GH assaulted her with the intent to cause injury and pain but without any inkling of killing her. Would most of us think that we were even capable of killing another adult – an athlete – with our bare hands?
If she had not died, I expect that he would be looking at a charge of malicious wounding. As it stands, I would expect to see him charged with murder initially but end up agreeing to plead guilty to manslaughter and perhaps malicious wounding as well. He’ll serve a few years in prison and spend the next decade after that trying to pay off the judgment in the inevitable civil suit.
Not a dumb question, bobbinthehook. It’s one that has bugged me as well. Given the description of YL’s injuries, I’d imagine the interaction was violent and noisy. IIRC, the original call to police had her roommates reporting only a possible alcohol poisoning, which makes me wonder if they even looked into the room after the attack.
Except, Jack, that he may have threatened her via email. At least that’s the rumor. I know, just a rumor, but if true then it’s pretty hard to claim he didn’t mean to kill her, even if the truth is that he didn’t.
A paper trail of threats coupled with the crime scene found by the police would be a pretty compelling case for murder one, it seems to me.
Just a senseless, brutal tragedy. Words cannot express the dull, hollow emptiness this death casts. My heart goes out to her family and friends.
I would point out that we don’t in fact know what the roommate and the roommate’s friend said when they called 911. I don’t believe the 911 call has been released. I’ve read that rescue personnel believed they were on their way to an alcohol overdose; if you look at the rescue log for that call, it’s listed as “cardiac arrest.” But we don’t know what they said to 911.
I actually do think there are moral lessons to be learned here, but not the one C&P seems to be pushing so hard (to wit, John Casteen’s purported lack of action in past incidents has created a sense of permissiveness that present students consciously take into account when they decide whether or not they’re going to commit an act of violence).
I agree with a great deal of what Cecil, Jack et al are saying, but would like to add the following:
It’s Richard Smith. Fred Smith (FedEx chair) is his father.
I spent several years working at UVA with several have groups, including men and women in the Greek system. I became very close with quite a few of them, and they confided in me. I was an older person they could talk to, but not in a position to bust them on anything. So I heard lots of stories from them and their boyfriends. What we see and hear is only the tip of the iceberg. When someone at UVA was arrested for various crimes, I’d almost always have already heard many disturbing stories about them prior to the arrest. Obviously, I can’t go into the specifics of who and when, but it ain’t pretty.
There’s tremendous pressure at UVA to not rock the boat. It’s not just peer pressure, but also administrative, and sometimes parental. So-and-so’s dad or mom is on the board of that company or this club, or is a major donor. It takes a lot of bravery to be the person responsible for bringing their kid down.
ooh, thanks for the correction on Fred/Richard Smith. I always get that wrong.
Voice of reality, what in the heck is a have group?
Thurston, it’s a wee typo– just eliminate the word “have.” Was posting while in the middle of something else.
Matthew Rosenberg wrote:
Beating a dead horse I know… but this last question occurred to me after reading the quoted comment above.
So if his lawyer were to provide you and/or the Daily Progress with a photo that was “More current” and cleaned up than the booking photo- would you and the Daily Progress use that photo instead of the booking photo??
Somehow I doubt it.
Jack, to reiterate, if he “only” meant to beat the tar out of her but ended up killing her instead, that’s not manslaughter, it’s second degree murder.
Mark, I read that a different way. After all, the Duke players didn’t commit any crime, so I think what the father was saying was that it’s not enough not to commit a crime, you have to take a lesson from what happened to them and avoid any situation where you might be accused even if innocent. I doubt he was thinking his son might beat someone to death.
Though that’s got to be complicated if he’d previously threatened to kill her. Even if he didn’t mean to kill her, if he’d threatened to do so a day, a week, or a month prior, I’m not sure a jury will buy that it was an accident.
@Just Bob
It is a good question. That has never, to my knowledge, happened before. What would happen is that we would talk about it and make an editorial decision.
I’m guessing it hasn’t happened before because before your comment on this thread- no one knew it was a company policy “to use the most current photo available.” And I’m guessing that they never thought- a cleaned up current photo might be option.
That said. Thanks for the response and answer. I can live with that.
And If it ever did happen- I’d love to be a fly on the wall during the discussion that resulted in the editorial decision.
Newsrooms meetings are never dull, I will say that. One clarification, there is no “company policy” on photo usage, just a general best-practice that is open to editorial decision.
Well then in my last “comment” feel free to substitute “company policy” for “general best-practice”.
Now someone reading this thread needs to email his lawyers to see if they’ll bite.
Virginia, State of, PENAL CODE…..Public Record.
§ 18.2-31. Capital murder defined; punishment.
The following offenses shall constitute capital murder, punishable as a Class 1 felony:
1. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person in the commission of abduction, as defined in § 18.2-48, when such abduction was committed with the intent to extort money or a pecuniary benefit or with the intent to defile the victim of such abduction;
2. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person by another for hire;
3. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person by a prisoner confined in a state or local correctional facility as defined in § 53.1-1, or while in the custody of an employee thereof;
4. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person in the commission of robbery or attempted robbery;
5. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person in the commission of, or subsequent to, rape or attempted rape, forcible sodomy or attempted forcible sodomy or object sexual penetration;
6. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of a law-enforcement officer as defined in § 9.1-101 or any law-enforcement officer of another state or the United States having the power to arrest for a felony under the laws of such state or the United States, when such killing is for the purpose of interfering with the performance of his official duties;
7. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of more than one person as a part of the same act or transaction;
8. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of more than one person within a three-year period;
9. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person in the commission of or attempted commission of a violation of § 18.2-248, involving a Schedule I or II controlled substance, when such killing is for the purpose of furthering the commission or attempted commission of such violation;
10. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person by another pursuant to the direction or order of one who is engaged in a continuing criminal enterprise as defined in subsection I of § 18.2-248;
11. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of a pregnant woman by one who knows that the woman is pregnant and has the intent to cause the involuntary termination of the woman’s pregnancy without a live birth;
12. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of a person under the age of fourteen by a person age twenty-one or older;
13. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any person by another in the commission of or attempted commission of an act of terrorism as defined in § 18.2-46.4;
14. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of a justice of the Supreme Court, a judge of the Court of Appeals, a judge of a circuit court or district court, a retired judge sitting by designation or under temporary recall, or a substitute judge appointed under § 16.1-69.9:1 when the killing is for the purpose of interfering with his official duties as a judge; and
15. The willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing of any witness in a criminal case after a subpoena has been issued for such witness by the court, the clerk, or an attorney, when the killing is for the purpose of interfering with the person’s duties in such case.
If any one or more subsections, sentences, or parts of this section shall be judged unconstitutional or invalid, such adjudication shall not affect, impair, or invalidate the remaining provisions thereof but shall be confined in its operation to the specific provisions so held unconstitutional or invalid.