DMB Backed Biscuit Run?

Was Boyd Tinsley an investor in Biscuit Run? Update: Yup. Multiple members of DMB were involved beginning in 2005.  #

25 Responses to “DMB Backed Biscuit Run?”


  • I love how they trotted Boyd out to be the spokesman for the press conference when they gave the property away, but until that point he and Dave were very much not known to be investors. And Boyd makes this whole thing about what saints they are for this, when there is nothing charitable about this at all. They sold it for around $10M to the state, plus they got some millions of dollars of tax credits, the exact amount of which we don’t even get to find out.

    This doesn’t make me think ‘go Boyd and Dave!’ This makes me think ‘what a couple of asses for spending years trying to shove this now-failed development down everyone’s throats for their personal gain.’

  • Oh come on already. Nothing was shoved down anyone’s throat. I’m glad to see the development shelved, but remember that houses are inhabited by people. And they don’t buy houses just for the hell of it. Wherever you live at the moment was once populated by squirrels, bunnies, and trees.

  • It was a little strange to hear Boyd’s love of beautiful Virginia and the need to protect it, with no mention that his investment in Biscuit Run was as a developer. If all had gone as planned, he would have been responsible for thousands of new houses and the loss of 800 acres of open space. Disingenuous, to say the least.

  • So why aren’t you people complaining about the destruction of the open space around the Ragged Mountain Reservoir?

  • It’s outrageous that anyone can convert a large tract of private woodlands to smaller tracts to build houses people can live in, stores to shop in, parking lots [shudder], ROADS [horrors].

    What of the indians who were here first and were driven off? Does no one care? Is anyone burning an eternal flame – or even a candle -for the lost indians, or sponsoring walkathons?

    What of the bears and raccoons who are no longer welcome? What of the deer and copperheads trying to make it in a tough world? And the bunnies … what about the bunnies???!??

    How dare people do what the law allows them to do with land they own.

    It’s a good thing we have this dunderhead brigade to give them what-for.

  • Hey Miss Manners quit copping my bunnies. How incredibly boorish of you.

  • What of the indians who were here first and were driven off? Does no one care? Is anyone burning an eternal flame – or even a candle -for the lost indians, or sponsoring walkathons?

    I dare say this borders on racism. It assumes that there aren’t native Americans still living here in our area. Keep in mind, up through the 1970’s Virginia legally classified native people in Virginia as “black”, so there’s been a very deliberate attempt to deny the existance of native people here and you’ve just contributed to that kind of misinformation.

    …and yeah, I do care. It was genocide, and it’s not a history I take lightly. Nor was it some event that happened long ago, but a continuing campaign to eradicate native culture and beliefs.

  • Dave Mathews = investor = greed
    boyd tinsley = investor = greed

    And don’t you dufus’s forget to put a bowl of milk out by the back door for the stray kitty that lives in the neighborhood the next time bad weather strikes.

  • @Miss Manners, there’s nothing racist about your statement. The idea that any mention of “race,” which has no scientific definition BTW, is taboo is ridiculous. Recently there was a hoopla about Rodney Thomas’ and Harry Reid using “Negro” resulting in many people calling them racist. I suspect throwing around the term “racist” is just another way of tellig people to shut up.

  • Gosh this is just so upsetting.

    And look at Cville–they may have articles about Feminist topics and goals but they’ll still sell out for a $; this ad looks like stripper call to me:

    ENTERTAINMENT Local entertainment business seeking attractive females 18-32. Must be outgoing and open minded. Earn an extra $300-$500 weekly for just a few hours of your time. For more info please contact us at 434-979-0077.
    report this ad | email me | email a friend
    Category: General Posted: 12/29/2009

  • C-ville Eye, so could you explain then how exactly how exactly you Native Americans in Virginia are “lost”…

  • Sorry, was supposed to be “how exactly you think…”

  • I never used the word “lost.” But I certainly can’t make a connection between saying someone’s being absent and being racist. It just doesn’t make any sense. I think kyour question should probably be more appropriately asked of Miss Manners.

  • Wow, the comments went down the toilet in record time on this post.

  • Sorry if I contributed to that. My point was rather simple. For some reason, whenever anyone in Charlottesville wants ot justify environmental damage they seem to trot out the excuse that “What of the indians who were here first and were driven off?”

    First of all it’s just plain bad logic. If anything, Miss Manners justifies the point of many environmentalists (i.e. the treatment of people and the environment are linked). Even worse, it’s somewhat racist to assume that Native Americans are absent from Viginia. Greatly reduced in number, but I assure you they are neither “lost” not absent.

    As for Boyd and DMB, rich people make investments. I heard a rumor from someone with inside knowledge that the Coran basically approached the band and spent weeks selling them on this great new investment. Keep in mind, while it was going to be the largest development the area has ever seen it would have reportedly been the closest to the neighborhood model we’ve ever seen, somewhat sustainable, and include a new county park. Personally, I think if you placed it over already developed land, then all those claims would be true. Sadly it was going to be put over forest which IMHO basically nullifies all the environmental amenities.

    All that said, in the end, Hunter Craig and DMB did the right thing and it will be a State Park. Maybe they did it because it was the best financial move, but it really doesn’t matter. I get a new State park instead of a mega development and there’s no way to spin that story that ruins it in my eyes. I’m more than happy to thank them for that, even if it was just bad investment on their part.

  • I think the DMB connection is noteworthy only insofar as the band has worked closely with groups like Farm Aid and The Nature Conservancy to promote preserving farmland and open space, and have decried the rent-seeking approach that dominates capitalism. I cannot see anything wrong with successful local businessmen investing in real estate, but to see these individuals investing in this particular project seems inconsistent with their stated values. It’s hardly a scandal, but it does warrant, oh, three sentences on the sidebar of the site. :)

  • Miss Manners,

    The sheer scale of the development that they were trying to put in would have created massive new demands on public services and resources that we would have struggled to keep up with. Among other things, we’re still figuring out how to properly manage the capacity of our water supply for the population density that is already here.

    The problem isn’t whether someone wants to bulldoze their property and build something. I’m all in favor of people building stuff on their land. The problem was that they wanted to do something that would cost the rest of us hundreds of millions of dollars in the long run for new schools, increased policing, a new fire department, etc. The proffer only covered a small percentage of all that. Here on Cville News we’ve all long since hashed out the numbers and figured out that the property tax revenue from the new homes would not pay for that stuff any time soon. Biscuit Run was effectively a huge tax hike for everyone else that was waiting to happen.

  • Waldo, I agree. It does warrent a mention, and I was a bit shocked when I heard Boyd referred to as an investor at the press conference. It’s just that after taking a moment to think about it, it occurs to me that people that know the band probably shouldn’t be that surprised. After all, isn’t one of Charlottesville’s biggest developers associated with the band? There’s no doubt DMB has done great things around Charlottesville, but once people get money they can lose touch with the actual on-the-ground impact of their financial decisions.

    I know another mega-developer in our area, and on their own property they are always talking about the various sustainable things they’ve done. Despite creating some rather armageddon like scenes with piles of trees burning as far as the eye can see, I think they actually believe they are doing something positive. They talked about how the developement in question would bring much needed products, services, and affordable housing to people that needed it. Somehow once you attain a certain level of wealth I think you just lose touch with the real world, and you can convince yourself that thousands of acres of environmental destruction is really something else.

    Or, perhaps, it’s merely proportional. Even if you take a rather responsible charlottesville citizen that is sensitive to environmental concerns then their financial decisions probably have a certain percentage of environmental impact. If you maintain that percentage, but increase the level of investment then the impact that may have seemed small then becomes really huge. Perhaps what we really expect is that as wealth increases, people are more responsible about how they invest?

    Keep in mind I’m not trying to excuse the behavior, but merely understand it.

  • And my point was it’s so easy to point a finger at the hypocrisy of others, but what person or organization really bears up under close scrutiny?

    And FFS…should we now consult the Cville News blog for the boiled-down, reliable facts pertinent any complex issue?

    “Here on Cville News we’ve all long since hashed out the numbers and figured out that the property tax revenue from the new homes would not pay for that stuff any time soon.” (from Jack)

  • “And FFS…should we now consult the Cville News blog for the boiled-down, reliable facts pertinent any complex issue?” This is definitely a good place to start in the discovery process. Cvillenuew.com does a great job of sourcing its statements and linking a readers to other pertinent information. For example, I really apppreciated the links to the material on Venegar Hill. It launched several weeks of exploration and memories that were locked in the cob webs of my mine.

  • I just spent the evening reading the online Daily Progress and I wan’t linked to anything.

  • Well we both agree on that. Waldo does good work, and fills a niche not covered by other news media. I’ve also seen quite a few times that a news story appeared here first and then other local news agencies picked it up.

  • Eh, I mostly write about what people e-mail me. If half of the people who e-mailed me useful thoughts and analyses about local issues were willing to be credited, the entire blog would consist of me quoting other people. :)

  • Energetic, diligent, and well-informed? I believe it.

    But this is pure arrogance and hubris (on your behalf not from Cville News directly of course):

    “Here on Cville News we’ve all long since hashed out the numbers and figured out that the property tax revenue from the new homes would not pay for that stuff any time soon.”

    This is the sort of smug “we got it all figured out… you can go to bed now” line that we were hearing from Paul Wolfowitz a few years back. It’s a bad sign when any group or forum doesn’t have a sense of reticence and self-effacing circumspection. I think the last post by Waldo shows this but the post by “Jack” is egregiously self-congratulatory. Think about how we’d feel if some “charrette” (yes that term is grating isn’t it?) pronounced that it had sussed out all the numbers and decided what was best for us.

  • “Think about how we’d feel if some “charrette” (yes that term is grating isn’t it?) pronounced that it had sussed out all the numbers and decided what was best for us.”
    Moses makes a good point. That approach tesW and others when dealing with the public’s concerns about it’s50=year water supply proposal did not serve the ratepayers ery wel. However, when I asked Waldo how he came up with the figure $222M, he graciously give me important links so that, rather taking his time to explain it to me again, I could read it for myself.

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