New 29 Developments Not Popular

Having a hard time keeping track of all of the planned developments for 29 North? The Hook has put together a guide, giving the vital stats and stories behind Hollymead Town Center, North Pointe, and Albemarle Place. With 3,690,000 square feet of space between them, there’s a whole lot of traffic planned for 29. Not everybody’s down with the proposals, though — on Wednesday, a group of protesters held a “Voluntary Tax Collection Day,” seeking the $100,000,000 that will be necessary to widen 29 to 11 lanes to support the addition of Hollymead Town Center. Unfortunately, they fell well short of their goal. David Dadurka had the story in Thursday’s Progress.

86 Responses to “New 29 Developments Not Popular”


  • is this still a issue?

    I bet you 100 dollars all of those 10 protesters will be shopping at Target next year around christmas time. I am surpise they got so much media coverage. 10 people (with mostly someone’s kids) are getting this attentation.

  • and a added note: You need a spell checker because I am too lousy to check. (j/k)

  • Suprise! It’s run by stratton salidis. What else is new?

  • I bet you 100 dollars all of those 10 protesters will be shopping at Target next year around christmas time.

    I know several of them personally. They’d sooner rob their grandmothers than shop at that Target. :)

  • Given the amount of negative press and energy devoted to opposing these projects, the fact that less than a football team’s worth of protestors showed up suggests that this is a pretty damn popular installation.

    The ideals of democracy demand Target!

  • The ideals of capitalist greed demand Target.

  • I know several of them personally. They’d sooner rob their grandmothers than shop at that Target. :)

    …so that’s where all those motherfukkers come from!? [arf arf]

  • I meant GRANDmotherfukkers, of course. Duh!

  • This is a different statement, how?

    You used more negative words, but you meant the same thing. More people want it, than don’t.

  • ELEVEN LANES?! Is that for real? That can’t be right.

  • it is called a "Scare Tactic". 11 lanes only exist in bigger cities like maybe LA or NY. And I have heard the 11 lanes thrown around too. They went people to be afraid of this new project. However by making wierd and sometimes odd claims, their agruements are usually just laughable.

  • Okay, we have 100+ threads dealing with the growth and how it is being dealth with especially on 29N. And I think after talking to some folks about it and getting their views. I really believe that this debate isn’t about trafficbut more or less is about location.

    Allow me to explain, everyone whom I talk to seems that Target and HTC’s spot is the best location to have it and they live pass Wal*Mart. Yet, some of the people who are againist it believes Cville ends at the Rivanna which of coarse is before the town center. So making the trip to Target will cause big traffic build ups like the one you see in NoVA. Some of the posters in here even go out and suggest putting Target in Albemarle Square or Seminole Square. I am sure they consider it but then again they probably did their market research and that pointed where they are going to be building at.

    This area is divided depending on where you live. It is kinda of wierd. Like me for instance, I live on Rio. I don’t like the downtown area. I HARDLY shop there because everything is closed before I get off work. I don’t like Friday’s After Five. There is no parking and beer is pretty expensive. I think it as mostly a family gathering and since I don’t have kids I don’t bother going down there on Fridays. If there is a movie playing at the downtown, I wait for it to come out on DVD. And this statement is important. I don’t bash anyone who decides to shop or dine in the downtown area. I think it is interesting that CVille has this favor. For me, it isn’t my taste.

    Why should we be adding MORE retail big boxes in this area? Simply, it will do good here. It is kinda of funny because in the Hook’s article the writer mentioned going to Short Pump and running into some CVillers. Wait a sec, someone from Cville would actually drive 50 miles to shop. And that was one given day. Okay now we establish that people in this area want Target.

    We now need to put it somewhere in this area. Hum, we can’t put it where K*Mart is at because they are still in business. Okay what about Seminole Square, oops no spot. Lets look at Albemarle Square. Good location, next to the mall. I just realize that there isn’t ANY room to put Target in Albemarle Square. Now I guess we have to put it on 29N. Hey why not we put it where the BOS allow a ‘growth area’ to occur. They have approved the NGIC building and the UVa research park. Forest Lakes and Hollymead are growing and so is Greene County. Perfect! I guess this is why they put Wal*Mart on 29N also and not in the city.

    And so I hear people who are againist complaining about driving in the middle of nowhere. It is simple. People in CVille don’t want it and people who don’t live in cville are open to having it. Finally, when I close my eyes and I see the HTC. I don’t see car to car traffic trying to get in there. I don’t see people taking forever getting to work if they live out on 29. I don’t see us turning into Fairfax because of one shopping center. I just see the nay sayers shopping there when it gets built.

  • Do they shop at Wal*Mart instead?

  • As a naysayer, I would like to ask you if you ran into those who moved into the country to get away from city life. As a Schuyler resident, I like the feel of the area and of the town. I would hate to suddenly have a bunch of retailers show up in the area. C&P Market is enough, thank you very much.

    As for me, I don’t necessarily object to more shopping areas or even to Target (though I won’t shop there because it’s way the hell out of my way, which supports one of your points). It may not be my main objection, but traffic is definitely a consideration. Of course, as it does affect my daily life, the traffic hell that will be created by the Best Buy is a little more worrisome than what happens north of town. Nevertheless, I worry about friends who live up there.

    A bigger concern on my part is the influx of more people to the area. At least two of the new developments contain plans for residential space. The Charlottesville area’s water supply is barely big enough to serve the area as it is. Adding another couple thousand people isn’t gonna help matters much.

    My biggest concern is on the environment itself. I have seen the before and computer generated after pictures of this development as it is currently planned. The loss of natural habitat and green space is truly phenomenal.

    I’m not against new retail developments as a rule. In fact, I am hesitantly looking forward to the development on 29N. I am afraid of how it may affect the traffic patterns, but it is more compact, doesn’t (to my knowledge) include residential units and fits into an already developed area. I just think that endlessly extending the city is irresponsible.

  • Where do they shop? What is the politically correct place to shop now? Or do they just rob their grandmothers?

    No matter where you shop, you’re supporting millions of people. The chain goes all the way back to whoever mined or grew the product. The people who sell it to you are only a small part of the process. It’s fairly irrelevant. More of a self image marketing demographic thing than anything else.

    Basically, all the holier than thou protester types consume just as much as the rest of us do. They just do it with a happy face on.

  • It is not irrelevant. When you shop at Lowe’s, for example, the only money that stays in the community is in the form of employee pay, operating expenses such as utilities and in property and sales tax. All of the profit goes into corporate coffers somewhere outside the community. When you shop at Mom & Pop’s Hardware Store, not only do they pay rent, consume utilities, pay employees, etc., they also keep the profits in the local area.

    There are other benefits to small stores, i.e. they know the communitys needs, they are available (usually) when you want to talk to them or have a concern, they (usually) go out of their way to honor an unusual request and it sure as hell is easier to work for one of them.

    Of course the mega-stores have their good points as well: bigger selection, lower prices, massive amounts of parking. I guess it all depends on where someone decides to draw the line. As for me, I shop at the national grocery stores and I love Lowe’s, but on the other hand I rarely eat in a restaurant chain bigger than Sylvia’s. I buy music at Plan 9 (a chain, but at least local to VA). I buy all of my personal reading at Heartwood. All of my textbooks come from the law school even though I’m not even a UVA student (I have connections but I could just as easily order my books at SBS or the main bookstore). I value small business and I shop there when they can provide what I want and/or need, and I don’t mind paying a little extra.

    The "holier than thou protester types" also tend to do things like recycle and conserve, so they in fact do consume less than the "average consumer."

  • Most of 29N in the shopping district is between 6-8 lanes, right? Is 11 really so far-fetched?

  • Interesting…

    I like your agruements more againist the growth rather then the shopping centers. I feel a lot of people are just mad that Mr. Wood decided to develop in a area that isn’t close enough for them in CVille.

    Actually, my whole arguements is towards how this area is doing a lousy job in preparing for traffic and growth. They are taking a "SEE NO EVIL" stance. Like for instance, why isn’t the bypass or Meadow Creek Parkway built by now?. I believe it is the people in charge don’t want more roads. Then why do we need more road?. I guess it is because we have more people living here. You can’t stop people from moving here. You can’t stop all the UVa grads from not leaving. You can’t stop all the northers from relocating here. That would be insane. I believe the big reason why 29N is such a hot spot is because of the growth seems to be focus more in Greene County. Albemarle and Cville’s cost of living has skyrocketed in the last 10 years. I mean why pay for 250,000 home when you can own a home in greene for 170,000 (figures might be off). So we have a lot of common people’ moving to greene who still work in CVille.

    I don’t believe Schuyler has anything to worry about. I don’t believe we will see them effect.

    I just believe if you worry about traffic then reconsider the Bypass or Meadowcreek Parkway. I mean do you know that trucks could miss Cville all together if they had a route from DC to Lychburg. I mean when I was doing research for the bypass on an ANTI-BYpass Site. The site actually convieced me that we needed one. It just seems that people are afraid of the problem that COULD OR MIGHT happen.

  • yes it is, everytime I on that 200 yards of road i think why in the world do we have this?

  • IamDaMan1, 2, or 3, Sybil, or whatever number you are today, your advocacy of development and highway construction causes me to believe that you would be a direct monetary beneficiary of such "progress." That, my friend, is called GREED.

  • GREED, LOL

    Well, I can tell you that hikes in the parks doesn’t pay the bills!

    lastly

    the reason why there is 1,2,3 is because I keep losing the password and I have different places I am posting at.

  • The "corporate coffers" make about 5 cents on your wal-mart purchase. Most of the money goes into the manufacture, marketing, and shipping of the product. If you buy an x-box from mom and pop, they make a nickle, and they or their employees get paid. When you buy at wal-mart, the corporate coffers get a nickel, and the employees get paid. Either way money is being spent locally by the employees. And the business itself spends money on local services.

    So whats the difference, it’s still people selling you things, getting paid, and going home to pay their rent. The only difference is where the tiny competetive profit margin goes, in this private store owners hands, or in his next door neighbors stock dividends or growth. How is an investor in a public company any less important than a private business owner?

    If the stock market tanks because everyone buys from their neighbors, we end up spending more money because of lack of competition. Our stocks are worthless, so we have less to spend at our neighbors businesses anyway.

    If digging your head in the sand was a sane economic tactic, those people on easter island would be filthy rich now, not extinct.

  • Let’s be fair to southern Albemarle and put Target and the others closer to them.

    I propose we rezone Foxfield to retail. It has good access from the highway and Rt 250. No need to bypass 250, that’s already been done.

    No controversy with this idea, right?

  • 11 lanes only exist in bigger cities like maybe LA or NY. And I have heard the 11 lanes thrown around too. They went people to be afraid of this new project.

    I’m not sure that 11 isn’t logical. Right now, in front of Wal-Mart there’s 5 lanes when going north (right?) and, what, 4 when going south? That’s 9 right there.

    Looks like we’re planning to be one of those “bigger cities,” I guess.

  • You are entirely wrong on this one. You say:

    The “corporate coffers” make about 5 cents on your wal-mart purchase. Most of the money goes into the manufacture, marketing, and shipping of the product. If you buy an x-box from mom and pop, they make a nickle, and they or their employees get paid. When you buy at wal-mart, the corporate coffers get a nickel, and the employees get paid. Either way money is being spent locally by the employees. And the business itself spends money on local services.

    So whats the difference, it’s still people selling you things, getting paid, and going home to pay their rent. The only difference is where the tiny competetive profit margin goes, in this private store owners hands, or in his next door neighbors stock dividends or growth. How is an investor in a public company any less important than a private business owner?

    Your information may appear sound, but your logic leaves much to be desired. If revenues for product x goes in large part “into the manufacture, marketing, and shipping”, Wal*Mart makes 5% of ALL products x, y, z and xxx ad infinitum sold in its stores. Do you comprehend? 5% of fukking everything. That means, in simple terms, they have more money than God.

    Now, profit is a good thing, in general terms. But when it is concentrated so utter singularly with a particular entity, in the current example Wal*Mart, then that may not be a goof thing. If Wal*Mart and executive board were philanthropic, like many magnates became during their lifetime in the past, then it wouldn’t be so bad. But, if you have ANY clue as to the current politico-economic landscape all over corporate America today, you’d know that executive boards are composed of the most vile, self-serving bastards ever to grace this world.

    So, in conclusion, supporting local small businesses in fact combats this endemically dysfunctional system of big business and corporations of today, now known primarily as “Globalization” (my interpretation). 30-100 years ago, this was a different debate, where size could bring forth social advancements. If only the average person could grasp this, then maybe, just maybe, we wouldn’t be headed down the drain.

  • Yeah, that’s what I meant to say :-)

    Besides, public stockholders don’t just live in Charlottesville or central VA, they live in New York, California, Texas, Nebraska… you get my drift.

    And stocks aren’t as readily spendable as pure cash.

  • That’s just the point. We don’t want Target, etc. south of Charlottesville (at least everyone I’ve spoken to doesn’t). That’s why we care about what happens north of town. When the Charlottesville to Washington business strip is complete, we don’t want that to happen to us.

    And to IAmDaMan (or something), I don’t worry about Schuyler proper, but when they start developing 29 and suburban schmucks start moving in, I’ll be pissed. It’s what I love about Nelson County, you have such an interesting group of people here. I fear the megastores would have a homogenizing effect on the area.

  • LOL, yeah but those lanes were NOT needed! They were put there JUST IN CASE there is a big traffic in that area. When was the last time you were driving in that 200 yards of 9 lanes and it was car to car without a accident or something. What I am saying is that the local leaders should have spent the resources on other road project IE bypass or MCP. I am just saying that sticking your finger in a one leak in a dam isn’t solving the problem.

  • FOXFIELD Oh NO!!!! The drunks and rich people might be mad that they must share their land with the common people. Though it would be a straight shot from Barracks Road but the fact the rich and the drunks need a place twice a year I doubt it will fly.

  • exactly. cool yer jets. four of those 11 lanes are probably turn lanes.

  • "When the Charlottesville to Washington business strip is complete, we don’t want that to happen to us. "

    LOL, I see it completed in the year 3042 AD.

  • But all the "less wealthy" people live south of town. Why aren’t they entitled to a Target like the people on the Northern end? They deserve one too! So since there IS demand for a Target, why not give it to them? That’s what America is all about, damn it!

  • You unwittingly defend "the rich people" when you advocate for a Target. It’s going to be in the ‘burbs and it will benefit a wealthy corporate entity.

  • …it will benefit a wealthy corporate

    entity.

    Just curious – what precisely is so evil about that?

    Who built your car – a mom-and-pop automaker? Who provides your electricity – some guy with a windmill in his backyard? Of course not – most of what most of us consume is brought to us in large part by wealthy corporate entities. I’m sure if somebody local could manage to create a local Target-like concern, it would be a big hit. But it’s just not possible, as wealthy corporate entities like Target have the advatage of economies of scale. Right or wrong, it’s an economic reality.

    There’s nothing inherently evil about wealthy corporations, most of which are owned at least in part by people who aren’t so wealthy. Without a doubt, some of them may become evil, but that’s not reserved for huge corporations- in fact, I imagine that there are a far higher per capita percentage of smaller companies acting with greed and being irresponsible than larger ones, if only because there are more eyes watching the big guys.

  • I like the fact that you like to label people BTW I am not Sybil you seek. Who the f*ck is Sybil?

    Well, if memory serves me right didn’t they want to put a Wal*Mart on 5th street. But wait, that project got some much loops for it to get approve. The city or county (I forgot) killed that project. So I doubt that Target will a different fate if they wanted to move south of town.

  • Sybil is the famed multiple personality figure of book and TV… ImaDaMan, 1, 2, and 3. And don’t give me that "I like the fact that you like to label people" s–t b/c if I were to go back over your comments I’m sure I could find a WEALTH of labeling on your end.

    It was killed b/c there wasn’t city and county agreement, sure. But it could have gone **further** south of town where it would benefit the most people, ie. those without tons of money. I wouldn’t want someone like you as "master planner" of my city because you have limited vision.

  • Show me where I said corporate entities are evil.

  • The real issue is the concentration of power. I’ll admit to not caring money stays where I live, I mean, frankly, whether it’s a C’villian, a New Yorker, a Québecois, an Indian, a Catalan or an Iraqi, we’re all people deserving of the fruits of our work.

    But when *that* much money flows back to bigwigs and these have low to abysmal ethical standards, then not only are the profits not serving the public good, that concentrated power can dominate the socio-political realm, especially when our institutions (both administrative and executive branches, i.e. Congress/Senate and extensions and the Prez) are either manipulated or willingly accomplice to deceitful control. Now you are talking about a dysfunctional system catering mostly to the rich.

    Think about this: Sam Walton wanted to sell only American-made products. When he died, that all changed. Now we see more Chinese-made fare than anything else. Is there something inherently wrong with Chinese-made products? No, except when only they can match the cost/margin/retail price ratios established by corporate Wal*Mart. And the corporate officers don’t care about quality or giving back to the communities they serve (other than loads of lip service and token gestures); they care about their bonuses which are linked only to profits. In political management terms, the measuring system is improperly skewed.

  • I’m south of town and I want a Target close-by! I’d just like to put it in a shopping district that I don’t have to see everyday while driving home and that will not cause unreasonable traffic jams between commuters and shoppers.

  • The board of directors of wal-mart doesn’t take all the money, the stockholders do. Sure, they produce their own products, big deal. If you shop at mom and pop you’re supporting some other big faceless company that produced their products.

    No matter where you shop, you’re giving your money to investors. NOBODY in charlottesville produced those products.

    Wal-Mart is the number one employer in america. Eventually everyone, including yourself, will derive their income from wal-mart. We’ll then spend all of our money at wal-mart, causing a never-ending flow of money into the evil-lair of wal-mart board members, until they complete their death ray and destroy us all.

  • You do realize that by offering adequate shopping south of cville, this will alleviate some traffic pressure from the northside, it will diminish the pollution generated from longer and denser drives, right? Do you realize your property value will increase (I know, Lars and Waldo think that’s a bad thing)? The trick is not to let the big box corporations do it their way, but to make them do it *our way* in *our best interest*!!!

  • Who provides your electricity – some guy with a windmill in his backyard?

    Sometimes, I wonder just that with the pathetic quality of our power supplier.

  • What can I say, man? What’s the point of anything? The way you think there should be total, unrestricted, "pure" capitalism. Either you are very wealthy and you can only see your side of things, or you are not too bright, or perhaps, you live in a dream world where everything is inherently balanced. That ideal exists in nature; but our nature, human nature, is self-destructive. History proves this time and time again. America is an exponentially fast empire that is equally speedy at auto-implosion.

  • how **further** is enough? Was Scottsville the ideal location for a another Wal*Mart? You have to take a look where they wanted it at. They were going to place it on 5th Street Ext. Which by all means was a ideal place because of the easy access from 64. They wanted people who were coming from the Waynesboro or Nelson county to have a easier time getting to it. But nooooooo, people were protesting it to all to hell. I didn’t care either way because I was at school at the time. Since they decided to kill it, now Stauton, Waynesboro, and H-burg got a supercenter and poor old CVille doesn’t. And believe me it would do so much business here but the nay sayers are worried about the TRAFFIC cry me a river.

  • Like I said, you are clearly a person with limited vision.

  • You are a very vocal proponent for big-box shoppings centers here in cville. Without wanting to sound antagonistic, I am curious as to what keeps you here. I mean, I think you’ve said you’re not married and no kids. Why not move to a shopping mecca like Nova, Richmond or Tidewater?

  • My job and family keeps me here. Heck I would move in a heartbeat BUT I can’t. I wish I could! The people in Cville are too UPPY in these parts. They need to relax and stop being so high and mighty. Cville isn’t that IMPORTANT of a city.

  • Cville isn’t that IMPORTANT of a city.

    So, you propose to junk it b/c it’s not a big-ticket town? You fit the profile of the “use and abuse” or “raze and rebuild” mentality. The Ultimate Consumer. I prefer to think of myself as a person whose presence on this planet is not destructive (or as little as possible).

    The problem as I see it, is, you are, in fact, the majority. I represent the minority. And in a democracy, your ideals (or lack thereof) win.

  • "And in a democracy, your ideals (or lack thereof) win"

    LOL, okay!

  • You didn’t say it – I did. The intent seemed to be that having the money go to a wealthy corporate entity is a bad thing. If I misunderstood, it’s my bad.

  • Then why are we the world superpower? I’m waiting for the collapse… still waiting… Why are we doing so well if our basic economic premise is flawed?

  • How dense can a person get? Don’t you think the Romans thought the same at their apogee? How about the Greeks, or the Egyptians, the English, the Portuguese, the Zulus or the Huns? Now to contest what I’m saying with rationale, that’s one thing. But to simply state “we are the superpower” is infantile, albeit another indication of error.

  • LOL how does this all relate to growth on 29N

    you guys crack me up when I am reading this.

  • MONEY!!!

    No seriously, I want these project to go through. Plain and simple!

    I think the area on 29N is gear for growth. I believe that NGIC and the UVA Park is the start. Also I believe Greene county is becoming the ‘subarbs’ of Charlottesville. A lot of good middle class folks working in CVille have taken to live in Greene. The area like it or not is a gold mine for growth. People do not want to come back to CVille after a long day of work. The area is perfect to handle this influx. It is a bridge between those people and those living in CVille.

    I am going to hear from the nay sayers that if a person decides to live WAYYYY out in Greene then they shouldn’t be complaining about shopping back in Cville. I would say you are wrong. Where people are living at is the ulimate deciding factor where growth occurs especially with retail and other business ventures.

    Like say for instance, there is a 100 home subdivision being built on the Greene county border. People who move into those homes didn’t choose it because it was way out in the country life. They choose it because it was a lot more AFFORDABLE then living in CVille. However do you believe those new residents should be force to shop WAYYYYYY back in town. Heck no! That is why Wal*Mart is where it is at. You don’t have to hit Cville to get to it if you were living on 29N. The cost of living is a lot cheaper in Greene then Cville.

    Now, I know by now you are asking this "What about the people SOUTH of CVille"? My answer to that is that North is growing a lot faster then South. Simple!

    The only people I blame if there is ‘MORE TRAFFIC’ is not the developers. I blame the lousy planning from local govt.

  • Ah, but Grasshopper! There is more to it than meets the eye!

  • For once, I agree with your reasoning. Except for the local lousy planning part… unless… you’re willing to blame the whole country of lousy planning ditto. And while I’m at it, local governments *are* in fact, reflective of the general populations’ values. That’s why we (the U.S. at large) have fugly shopping areas, piss-poor suburbs, flaky public services and a generalized lack of cultural and aesthetical values.

    So, DaMan, Lars, Big-Al, you’re all right: bring it on! Let the Wal*Marts and the Targets, and the Best-Buys, the Olive Gardens and the Home Depots, the Jcpennies and Barnes & Nobles decide for us what our “cherished” national landscapes should look like. Heck, the biggest activity for most people is driving their tanks for a day at the Mall. So, bring it on!

  • hell ya,

    BTW, I don’t drive a tank you mention. I do however love that snickers commerical :P.

  • A death ray? whoa…that is disturbing

  • fool! if they put the target up north, then we (the south c’villians) don’t have to put up with the traffic and congestion in our neighborhoods. keep those dirty carpetbaggers outta our south!

  • I don’t think I’ll do much shopping at Target, thank you very much. But my beef is not necessarily with Target, but more with smart growth and quality of life issues. Increased traffic that fosters an autocentric access will decrease incentive for pedestrian traffic, and cost $100 million dollars in taxpayer money to improve roads so that overweight Americans can spend even more time in their cars morphing into blobs of fat at this stoplight or that somewhere out on 29N

  • ^ lol

    well if I could ride my bike to work I would but seeing that my work is like 15 miles from my house. I would be tired everyday. Sorry dude we don’t live in Europe.

  • ‘keep those dirty carpetbaggers outta our south! ‘

    that has to be a joke,, who wrote this?

  • Dream on. Who gives a crap where the profits go? Is there some profit sharing plan in Albemarle I am not aware of?

    I get my salary, sometimes bonuses, and that is "my share" of the profits. What the hell else do you want? Businesses pay taxes. Many pay rent. They collect sales taxes for the County. Some corporations in fact DO donate a percentage of their profits to the "local" community, Target being one of them.

    I don’t give a crap if Joe Shifflett who lives locally gets rich or not. All I know is I am not the one getting "the profits" and if it’s not me, who cares?

    As far as shopping at Mom and Pop, Inc. locally:

    1) They are never open except when I am at work (damn that 8-5 job)

    2) The selection is less. Many small shops "specialize" in a single brand, and offer it as a feature, claiming they are "experts" with this brand.

    3) Small shops tend to charge more. Sometimes, CONSIDERABLY more.

    As far as "paying a little extra" – I am already paying extra just for the privilege of living here. In case you havn’t noticed, stuff is more expensive, already, in Albemarle than in Richmond or Fredericksburg. Even at the national chain stores.

    As far as your perceived consumption level, again, dream on. OK, you recycle. Good for you! Sure, you may be "consuming" less raw materials, but guess what, it requires energy (sometimes considerable energy) to recycle many materials. Often, the energy required to recycle is as much or more than the energy required to mine/grow it in the first place. Not to mention to extra handling, transportation, and sorting costs.

    I am not saying don’t recycle – but don’t use it to fuel your defense of the "holier than thou" crowd. In the end, unless you’re living in a one room shack, have no heat or hot water, and make your own clothes by hand from animal skins, then you are probably using more materials and energy than you think yuo are, even if it’s indirectly.

  • So, then the REAL reason for opposing the Big Box stores is that certain people make too much money? Is that it?

    So, you want me to pay more for products, have less selection, or better yet, just do without, OR drive all the way to Richmond or Fredericksburg just so you and rest of the Albemarle Association of Liberal No Growth Snobs can make some sort of a STATEMENT against big business in general?

    Alas, the truth comes out. It’s not the traffic folks. If’s not the huge parking lots. It’s Joe Walmart being TOO RICH that is the real issue here.

    Thanks for clearing that up for me.

  • So, rather than support the Corporate Juggernaught, why don’t you hunt with a spear, kill animals, make your own clothing, grow your own food, and live in a tent made of animal skins?

    What a better way to make a statement than bitching about a Target store.

    People like you always turn every discussion into a speech titled "Behold the end of civilization" with comparisons to the Roman Empire and their decadent existance.

    When you take this route, you just look foolish.

  • Everyone I talked to is in favor of it.

  • I am OK with it. Southern Albemarle is still closer than Fredericksburg and Richmond for me.

    I have never been to Fox Field and wouldn’t care if they bulldozed it.

  • I don’t think the Archangel descending from high above with a personal message just for you would clear anything up for you. You want what you want and there’s no amount of reasoning that would affect your judgment.

  • "As far as shopping at Mom and Pop, Inc. locally:

    1) They are never open except when I am at work (damn that 8-5 job)

    2) The selection is less. Many small shops "specialize" in a single brand, and offer it as a feature, claiming they are "experts" with this brand.

    3) Small shops tend to charge more. Sometimes, CONSIDERABLY more. "

    LOL, sorry this topic has really got me laughing. As for your thoughts about local "Mom and Pop’s shop", since I have friends who are small business owners of these types of shops I can relate.

    1- I totally agree with you about the hours of these shops. The only problem is that these shops’ peak hours are somewhere between 10 – 4. And in this tight ecomony, why would these shops hire more people to catch those 5 people between 5-8. And yes I know, if these shops were open more hours then more people would shop. Yet in this ecomony, it is wiser to save.

    2- I have to disagree with you about selection. You and other people are what we called spoiled by Wal*Mart. Small business cannot afford to stock EVERYTYPE of different selection just so you can pick and choose. They have to carry the more popular items which might not be your choice.

    3-It depends where you go! If you want to shop at a FANCY BELLS AND WHISTLE shop, then don’t be surpise if they charge up the creek. You have to find the gem in the roagh. Some small business which I agree in this area tend to charge more. The main reason is that they can get AWAY with that. The more uneducated rich people spending a arm and a leg means more price gauging. And that is why I keep on thinking that places like Target isn’t a bad idea.

  • People like you always turn every discussion into a speech titled “Behold the end of civilization” with comparisons to the Roman Empire and their decadent existance.

    When you take this route, you just look foolish.

    In this case, I’d say this thread is more like “Behold the village idiot trying to type something, anything on his ‘puter.”

    btw, the Romans’ existance was far from decadent, you fool.

  • I have never been to Fox Field and wouldn’t care if they bulldozed it.

    I have never been to your place, and I certainly wouldn’t care if they bulldozed it.

  • we need a parking lot for all the cars let us start with Sympatico’s house :P

  • yeah and my Ruger semi-automatic is waiting for you!

  • Ruger? That isn’t nice! I thought you were a peace activist!

  • When you play a chess game, do you say to yourself as long as your king is not in check, then who cares where and how the other side is maneuvering?

    Economies are a grand-scale chess game. If thinking about all the ins and outs is too exhausting for you, then just sit back and enjoy the ride others have planned for you. k?

  • I’m peaceful, indeed. But I ain’t no peace activist. And when it comes to my property and the saftey of my loved ones, I’ll take you down.

  • Yeah, that is general feeling I get with people whom I talk to. A lot of them were telling me that PEC’s Clarion and the 10 brave protesters show how silly the ANTI’s are. People who didn’t even have a side for it now wants the Target built to tee off the ANTI for being lame.

  • *hides in the bushes

    Golly, I have this new found respect for the Sympanator!

  • Furthermore, when I have a backyard of my own and some capital, the electricity I use will come from my back yard.

  • Don’t be too optimistic, Schuyler Man. A typical generator will provide for critical devices, but you won’t get satellite, micro-wave, oven and such working 24/7. But I feel your pain!!!

  • So does anyone here have any predictions for tonight’s BOS meeting:

    I say it gets approve 4-2 with people who are for it out numbering the ANTI’s by 3-1 tonight.

  • don’t sweat him. he’s just got a massive e-cawk

  • a couple of anti-growthers will show up and raise a ruckus, which will cause the BOS to delay any action because they lack the sack necessary to stand up to whiny hippies.

  • YEAH, I think it is a done deal. I mean if you drive pass the spot where HTC is going to be at, you will notice they are already leveling the ground. I mean if a developer wasn’t too sure if it was going to pass he wouldn’t be doing anything. Or he could just leave a plain dirt field as a remember to all the ANTI growth with a sense of nothingness. That would actually be funny.

  • You could actually see the different PROS/ANTIS there. Wow, what a turn out!

  • so what happened? they give it the go-ahead, or did the hippies stage a sit-in and stink up the place good?

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